Having just got back into modeling I am nearing completion of my first model a Hasegawa 1/32 Fockewulf Fw190A-8. So I’m sat there last night studying the box art and decal sheet and I notice the funny little balck squares with a white outline in place of the swastikas.
So I checked my new Cyber Hobby 1/32 scale Messerschmitt BF109e-4 box art and decal sheet and low and behold, the same thing!
So as the machine on the box art was Adolph Galland’s ride I did a search on google for ‘adolf galland BF109E-4’ and you get lots of images both of the real aircraft, and of models of the aircraft, all showing swastikas.
So my 1st question is, when did this happen? Just read a post on a UK forum bemoaning the lack of swastika decals going back to 2008.
2nd question, what do all you Luftwaffe fans do about depicting swastikas, and where do you get your decals from?
And what’s your opinion? Is it just me that thinks this is crazy? We dont see WW11 Japanese aircraft modelers having to do without there red roundels or rising suns, so for the sake of historical accuracy, why ban the swastika on a model aircraft?
They are probably there, but you’ll have to piece together two decals to make the swastikas. Look for a couple of Z or four L shaped decals.
This happened a L O N G time ago, as it is considered in bad taste and illegal in some countries. Mfrs protect themselves by covertly including the markings to keep their customers happy yet prevent being banned or challenged until local laws.
There are aftermarket sheets of german markings including swastikas.
This is a topic that often surfaces and has been discussed to death. Sorry you’re just joining into the coversation but you’ll see mixed responses for and against.
The ban, is applicable to certain countries whose laws prevent the display of this symbol which is perceived as a hate crime or of a political party that has been deemed criminal, evil and unacceptable. Some websites will display a model bearing such markings but by law they must edit the images to block or remove them…usually these sites are based in those places where it is illegal to display said markings.
Unless I’m mistaken, I believe public display of the swastika is banned in Germany and some other countries, and the swastikas are removed to make things kosher for international sales. I’ve also seen some kits that include the swastika, but sliced in two, presumably for similar reasons.
It’s been this way for awhile. I remember it from back when I was building models as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s.
Personally, I think it’s a bit kneejerk, but I understand. A lot of entities did a lot of really terrible things in WWII, and the Soviets killed way more people, but the Na-zis were the only group that engaged in a pre-meditated mission to destroy an entire race of people.
As for what to do about it, it’s extremely easy to find decal sheets of just swastikas. Just search “swastika” on any major online retailer’s site.
Thanks for your replies all, how fascinating, just actually found some sheets at Sprue Brothers which I have ordered, I will check the sheet to see if they are not there in ‘code’!
The interesting thing is I have also just read a post from a German modeler who says he can buy swastika decals in Germany and he displays them on his models at exhibitions!
Anyway, pointless banging this drum, I ain’t going to change it, back to the bench!
I have built several aircraft kits that showed a black diamond on the vertical stabilizer on the box art and on the painting diagrams, but the decal sheet had swasticas!
Yes, I have seen decal sheets at both Squadron and Sprue Brothers full of nothing but swasticas of all sizes.
I guess this whole flap is caused by PC clowns trying to rewrite/ignore history.
If you look on the decal sheet there are two common methods the model companies deal with this while still allowing the swastika option (the other option is just no decal at all). They will either break it up into pieces usually L shaped bits, or more recently I’ve run across crosses on one decal and lines spaced out on the other decal, so when put together you have a swastika. This second method seems much easier to put together.
The decals are rarely mentioned in the instructions, so you kind of have to look for them.
I am not sure of this, but I have heard that the Germans are easing up a bit on the display of the swastika for historical purposes, such as on models. It is still a very sensitive and touchy subject to a lot of people.
This is not just affecting model companies. Besides building models, I sometimes fly in an on-line flight sim called “Aces High”, a company that is based in Texas. However, since there are some players that play the game that live in Germany, none of the German a/c in Aces High have the swastikas on them.
Personally I feel like they should be included in the name of historical accuracy. If nothing else they serve as a reminder of the terrible things done by those serving under that symbol, and remind us that we need to be mindful of current events so that nothing like that is ever able to happen again.
OK, so here is another interesting thing, since reading HawkeyeHobbies comment, I went back and looked carefully at the decal sheet on the Focke Wolfe, and the Swastikas ARE there, tucked away in a corner.
Now, not wanting to start a political debate re the Nazi’s, that is not really the issue here. Of course we don’t want the Swastika being displayed to demonstrate an affiliation with neo Nazism. It has only been outlawed in Germany if used as a symbol of Nazism.
So I stand by my original statement. For years after the war, kits had swastika decals in the interests of historical accuracy, and why not?
My dad fought in the war and he made models with them on. So I still suspect its all done for political correctness rather than to comply with a point of law.
Pretty much the way we are not supposed to call Christmas Christmas anymore in case it ‘offends’, certain groups.
What they going to ban nest? Naked or saucy ‘nose art’? God forbid! I must be getting intolorant myself in my old age! Cheers, Ian
Well, I work in marketing, and have to deal with clients’ legal departments on a regular basis…and even in cases where legal precedent is clearly on our side (i.e. using the trademarked term “Super Bowl” to refer to the actual NFL Super Bowl), they almost always knee-jerk to the safe (and awful) path.
So I’d guess, even if it may not be a strictly legal issue, there’s probably a good deal of CYA at work.
I’ve also noticed that the practice varies by manufacturer. My Eduard 109E-7 Trop had like four different swastikas on the decal sheet. My Cyber-Hobby E-4 has none. My RoG Arado 196 has none. My Dragon Bf-110D has none. By my Zvezda 109F-2 has them.
Personally, I would chalk it up to “companies are often retarded”.
I could not have said it better. How many have been murdered under the hammer and sickle symbol, should that be banned and would it make the twisted philosophy go away or never have occured?
No sir, without starting a pissing match, or spritiual, or political tirade - as I know this is a touchy subject, but shouldn’t be - Christmas IS techically a CHRISTIAN observance, not just a mere holiday, or excuse to get, or give presents, or have the day off. This is also obeserved by people who shouldn’t since they have no sense of sprituality, and are not Christians. But, true to the nature of the world its’ true meaning is misconstrued by many with Santa Claus, and crass commercialism. No one says “Ban Santa Claus”! There are quite a few that think everyone else should believe thier way, because they’re offended by someone elses’ beliefs = “special interest groups”. These are the ones that think they should have all say, and no freedom for anyone else! Barring the discussion that we’re on in this thread. The SS was evil, and there’s no denying it happened. The same with the birth of Christ - which is why we have Christmas in the first place, as it is mentioned in the Holy bible. How can you say you are offended by it, then observe it? I just don’t get it.
Nazism on the other hand was complete contempt for Jews, and Christianity - this was ultimately Hitlers’ plan, to attempt to dethrone God, and name himself as lord, and leader of all man! No one wants to remember it, but they don’t mind censoring biblical things that teach of peace, and love - Christianity, and embrace religion which is mans’ way of interpreting the Holy bible, which is wrong. The liberals, and other amorals impose their own personal unfounded beliefs on our nation, but try to eliminate God from every facet of life in the USA. Wasn’t this country founded on the beliefs of Christian men, and now being censored by the faithless few who are pushing their lack of spiritual faith on everyone? Unbelieveable! They censor God - they’ll censor anyone. No being that shares the same image of God almighty should be ashamed of the gospel, or things that they don’t understand. I do however, understand wanting to ban items that glorify hate, and violence, but why ban your creator?
Don’t be surprised if they begin censoring models, or omitting things from our daily lives the used to be an American staple. Does anyone else here remember when people on T.V. used to say “Thank God, I’m an American”! Why did they say that? It’s because we had the freedom of choice, and speech in a country founded by bible believing, God fearing men - now we’re being censored, and having so many of these freedoms slowly, and arbitrarily taken away! Don’t be surprised when something else is banned, or removed from public view because some candy ass liberal low life who wants to control everyone else - bans, or censors something you love! I guarantee you’ll all be angry, and crying to stop it. Remember, “Evil prevails when good men do nothing”.
Post war Swastikas often were not included. You can find many kits from the 1960s that did not include them even US based companies like Monogram, Revell and Lindberg. This changed in the late 60s early 70s when it was recognized by the model companies that an accurate depiction was desirable, probably not a coincidence that overall quality improved at that time as well.
You have to remember the majority of non-modelers consider plastic models toys, not historical displays. Toys don’t need symbols of hate on them. As a modeller that is an annoying attitude but we are a minority of the population.
If you wanna get technical about it, historically-speaking, it isn’t a “Swastika”… The proper term for NSDAP symbol is “Hakenkreuze” (Hooked Cross)…
Ain’t nothin’ new either… Model companies have either removed or altered it since the 70’s when they all wanted to break into the West German markets, and did so to comply with West German law…
The swastika can be used in Germany in a Historical context. For example you can publish a photograph in a book with a swastika in it if it is about the rise of Nazism. Some religious groups such as Hindus are allowed to use the swastika as they have used it long before the Nazis adopted it as their own symbol. It was decided that model kits were toys so the historical context argument cannot be used. The swastika is also banned in Hungary along with other symbols used by nationalist groups and totalitarian regimes including the hammer and sickle.
This is nothing compared to the ban on tobacco advertising. While modelling magazines are happy to print photographs of airplanes with swastikas any tobacco company logos on racing cars will be pixilated out and you will certainly not find any decals for these offending articles in model kits.
Cheers, Ian