Vietnam Cobra

Modeling Subjects Helicopters
1

Hello all

With all the interest generated by the Vietnam huey thread, i thought it only fair that AH-1G/J Cobra should have a thread of its own. Owing its roots to the UH-1B & C and being the first helicopter in history designed specifically for the role of Gunship it deserves the same recognition and attention that the UH-1 huey helos have had on this forum.

A few years ago i decided to get back into modeling and went to my local hobby shop in search of a Vietnam era huey, i hadnt built one since childhood and thought it would be a great place to start, but the only helo they had was the Revell 1/32 AH-1G, so reluctently i took it home and thought “this will do untill i get hold of a huey” to my surprise it was an absolute pleasure to build and research.

Initially developed to provide escort and fire support for the CH-47A Chinooks in Vietnam, it soon became apparent that the cobra was also better suited for the role of gunship protection for the troop carrying huey slicks than the smaller UH-1B/C model hueys employed for this task at the time. Although smaller than the UH-1D/H slicks, the weight of the armament and problems with drag ment that at times the UH1-B&C escort gunships had problems keeping up with or getting ahead of the main troop ships to prep the landing zone. Its a well known fact that many of the gunships had to bounce down the flightline to get airbourne. So came the need for a helicopter that possessed the speed ,endurance and firepower to do the job.

In September 1967 the first six AH-1G Cobras arrived in South Vietnam and became operational in November of 67. By the spring of 1968 the US Army had ordered 838 AH-1G’s and in May Of 68 the US Marines ordered 49 under the designation AH-1J.

I plan to build another cobra, a little bit wiser than i was on the last attempt, not sure what to go with as i have seen some great pics but maybe something from “Blue Max” all depends on what pictures we get posted here.

Anyway i know there are a few Cobra fans on this forum and hopefully they can share thier knowledge, stories and pictures with the rest of us and make this thread as interesting and informative as the huey thread and a place for us to all return for source of reference on cobras and building a model of this fine bird.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and for your efforts ive posted some links below to wet your Cobra appetites.

A fantastic video showing the cobra in operation in Vietnam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvFeyslhWRo

An oral interview done by Cobrahistorian from this forum, with a Cobra pilot who served with the 12th Combat Aviation Group in Vietnam from September 1969 to September 1970. There are many oral interviews on this site from Vietnam vets . For this one scroll down to ‘Dave Tela’ they are all alphabiticaly listed by surname, its long but WELL worth a listen.

http://www.star.vietnam.ttu.edu/starweb/vva/servlet.starweb?path=vva/oralhistory.web&id=newweboh&pass=&search1=WEBOK%3DYES&format=format

If you have anything else to share about Vietnam era cobra’s or your models of them please feel free to post here, your contributions will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Andy.

2

Hi Andy,

Good idea.I have a couple of Revell kits in the stash plus a load of 1/72 ones just waiting to be built up. I’m saving all the rocket pods from my Italeri kits to fit on the Cobras as the ones that come with them are useless. Interesting video. I’m glad I wasn’t in that boat!!!

Rich

3

There is an excellant book out there by our own Cobrahistorian, “AH-1 units in Vietnam” and I highly recommend it

4

Andy:

I have a book entitled Modern Fighting Aircraft AH-1, published by Salamander Books Limited London that goes into the development of the Cobra fairly well. I remember seeing the Sioux Scout and watching a flyover of the Cobra when it had retracable gear at the Bell Hurst facility in early 1966.

According to this book which coincides with your research that 1 Sept 1967 was the officical date the Cobra arrived. In the Salamader book the author also cites a book written by Jerry Scutts entitled UH-1 Iroquios/AH-1 HueyCobra. In this book the author gives the date of August 31 for the first Vietnam combat mission. I was fortunate enough to assist with the unloading and buildup of the first Cobra to arrive in Vietnam. I do remember it was late August as I left country the first week of September 1967. I happended to be in the Bell Saigon office the day that William J. Diehl mananger of Bell customer service asked if I would like to go up to Bien Hoa to watch the first Cobra arrive. We drove up to Bien Hoa and saw the C-130 land with the Cobra. Bob Shockey was the Bell pilot ground school instructor , and I think the pilot was LT Col Stanton who flew the first flight were there to make things happen. Bell and the Army personnel were very interested in showing that the Cobra could become operational quickly so within three hours after arrival the first aircraft flew a testflight. The Cobra NETT team (New Equipment Training Team) was set up by Dan Edwards (not sure where he is at now) and classes were conducted in Vung Tau Vietnam. I remember the manuals were not yet bound and pages went all over the place during the runup.

Thanks and I am glad to see you start this discussion as it should bring back many memories.

Ed

5

Its Dave Tela and I conducted that interview.

The first flight occurred on 4 September in aircraft 66-15259, with LTC Anderson as pilot and MAJ Stein as CPG. This came DIRECTLY from MAJ Stein in an interview I did with him. The Playboy platoon of the 334th AHC went operational on 8 October 67 according to MAJ Ken Rubin, the platoon leader.

Jon

6

Jon:

Did I get the Bell people right [:)] So much for my long term memory. The 4th would coincide with my being there as I was in Saigon getting ready to go home. Anderson was the CO of the NETT team, right? or was he part of the program that the Cobra fell under?

Edited 25 April. After doing some research and checking with another Bell Helicopter employee, I am going to stand by the month August and 1967 as being when the first G model Cobra arrived in Nam. This is what I remember, true I didn’t know the pilots. I would love to get in contact with the then Major Stein as we crossed paths ever so briefly almost 40 years ago.

Ed

7

Ed,

The Bell names sound very familiar. I’m not sure, as most of my research material is packed up at my parents’ house in NY, but I’m pretty sure you’re right. LTC Anderson was the NETT CO at the time and from what I remember they initially set up the NETT transition course at Bien Hoa and then moved it to Vung Tau in 1970. Not 100% sure on that though. Its been a while since I’ve looked at that stuff and right now my mind is crammed so full of Apache gunnery data that I think its gonna explode!

[:D]

Jon

8

Hi Rich

I noticed my local hobby shop has a few of the Revell 1/32’s in, on special offer, so i might grab one for after ive finished this ever growing hoard of hueys lol. Its the only cobra model i have seen so i dont know if there are any better ones out there.

Its nice to see the cobra on film, theres another couple of vids on there, but i think that one’s best. I dont think i have ever seen a cobra in any Vietnam war movies. Come to think of it i dont remember seeing a cobra in any movie!

Andy

9

The only large-scale Cobra’s are Revell/Monogram’s 1/32 AH-1G and Academy/MRC’s 1/35 AH-1W (also re-boxed by AFV Club as a Taiwanese Cobra with some extra resin parts, and Italeri with different decals). Both are good kits.

The G is pretty old molds but has been recently re-issued with some updated parts. It builds up pretty good and is a good base for extra details.

The W is an excellent kit. It comes out looking great OOB.

Cobra Company makes upgraded cockpit and weapons sets for both as well.

There are a few in 1/48 and 1/72 too, but I don’t know their quality since I don’t build in those scales.

10

Ed.

I have a few of the old Salamander books, most the info i have comes from them, as they are usually pretty accurate. ‘Air War Over Vietnam’ is a handy little book, it doesnt go into great detail but covers the main basics on most of the aircraft that were over there.

It must have been a welcome sight to see brand new Cobra gunships arriving to protect the troops on the ground, imagine the looks on the guys faces (on both sides) the first time cobras rolled in for support.

You dont have to thank me for starting the thread, its my pleasure. Those of us who didnt serve in Vietnam or fly helicopters, for the most part, have to rely on books and footage to try to gain a better understanding of what guys like you went through, and now with the internet and forums like this, guys like yourself can share your experiences with the rest of us and to me no amount of research can compare to hearing directly from the veterans themselves, from contributions to the forums like yours, so for that, its me that should be thanking you.

Thank you Ed

Andy

11

Hello Cobrahistorian

Wow i had no idea it was you in the interview, i hope you dont mind me posting the link. I have amended the spelling mistake. I came across the site by chance and yours was the first one i listened to. I love the bit about the hut [:D]. I dont have your book but i would love to track down a copy now i know about it.

I dont pretend to know anything about cobras other than what i have read in books and seen on the net. Thats the main reason for this thread, so novices like me can learn a bit more about the models we are trying to recreate. I expect you will be able to answer most the questions that pop up in here and if you could help with info that would be great.

As with the huey thread this one could never hold all the information there is about cobras but it helps to bring bits of info and pictures dotted around on the net that could otherwise go unseen to one place and with the contributions of the vets and helo experts it makes it a great place for us all to come for reference.

Thanks in advance Cobrahistorian and thanks for doing the interview with Dave Tela, it gives a great insight into the life of a cobra pilot in Vietnam.

Many thanks

Andy

12

In 48th, there are a couple options.

Monogram AH-1S/F

Aurora AH-1G

Fujimi AH-1J

Italeri AH-1W

Italeri AH-1Z

All of the above kits have raised panel lines and the cockpit detail is pretty sparse. The Monogram by far has the best cockpit detail. The rest can really be spruced up by the addition of Cobra Company’s various detail sets. Unfortunately, the only Vietnam Cobras in 48th are the Aurora G model and Fujimi J. Both are out of production, and I have no idea what happened to the Aurora molds for the G. I just acquired an Aurora G and was considering trying to cast G fuselages in resin, but it may just make sense to get the CC conversion kit for the Fujimi AH-1J.

The new Italeri AH-1Z is pretty crappy as a Z. It is based on the AH-1-4BW and does not have the correct rotor, wings, sensors, exhausts or cheek fairings. But the W is a good kit for a Desert Storm AH-1W. If you want to build it as a current bird, there is significant surgery that needs to be done to make the correct NTS upgraded nose.

I haven’t built the J yet, although I do have one on the way. I’m going to do it up as an Operation MARHUK bird from 1972 off of North Vietnam.

I haven’t decided on my AH-1F’s paint scheme yet, but it will most likely be from the 10th Mountain division in Somalia 1993. The AH-1G is going to be the mount of none other than our own “Snakedriver”. He’s been a good friend for a while and I’m excited to build his bird. And finally, my Whiskey is going to be “Angel” from HMLA-269 that flew in OIF.

Jon

13

Hello Gino

I think the Revell kit i built and the ones in the shop are the re-issued versions. It went together really well, i had a little trouble with the cockpit as you have to get it just right for the sides to fit but other than that, it was great fun to build. It came with 7 and 19 shot rocket pods and 2 minigun pods (which i thought were fuel pods lol) and “Squatter Swatter” decals.

I didnt have internet access at the time so my cobra sports silver minigun and grenade launcher on the nose turret and engine colours that would make cobrahistorian cry lol. It needs a bit of corrective work and some decals as the teeth went wrong and for all my best efforts ended up in the trash.

Hopefully my next attempt will do the AH-1G more justice and i will get the cobra Company cockpit (i hadnt noticed Chris did a weapons set too) wouldnt mind adding the mounted minigun like you mentioned in your thread. These were the only pictures i could find regarding the M35

Could they not carry miniguns on both sides then?

It would be great to get hold of a cobra in 1/35 so i will keep an eye out for the ones you mentioned.

Many thanks

Andy

p.s how do you quote just one sentence from someones post? as i can only quote whole post.

14

Yes, the 7.62mm minigun pods could be, and were, carried on both sides. The 20mm M-35 cannon could not be carried on both sides at the same time due to weight of the 2nd gun and the extra ammo needed to feed it. The M-35 was only carried on the port side as well. I’m assuming it had to do with center of gravity and flight characteristics.

As a note, this pic is inverted. The front canopy opens on the port side, not the starboard side.

Simply copy the text you want, then place it between quote code, [ q uo te ] text here [ / q uo te ], only leave out the spaces in the code. Same as you can do for images.

15

Thanks Gino

16

Hi,

I’m after some dimentions of the XM-158 FFAR launcher as I want to scratch build some in 1/72 and 1/48 so I need to know their length and width. I’ve tried several searches but come up with nothing.

Thanks, Rich

17

Rich,

Mutza lists the length of the 2.75 in rockets without a warhead as 99.8 cm. I can’t find the length of the warheads, but the shotest warhead ends up even with the opening of the M-158 tube. if you can find the length of the warhead, you’ve got the length of the tube. As for the M-158 tube’s width, since the rockets we 70mm, in 1/72 scale a 1mm diameter piece of tubing should work great. Maybe Cobrahistorian could measure one of the tubes for you if they have any in storage at Ft. Rucker.

Ray

18

I’ll see what we can do about measuring pods. We have a couple on a UH-1B in the museum here at Rucker. The rockets we use today are different from Vietnam-era ones. The fins have been completely changed and the overall length of the rocket motor is shorter.

Skypirate-

Great pics! I’m wondering about that 1-9th Cav bird (the one with the sharkmouth). That very well could be “Heather Dawn” before she got her name! I worked on that helicopter at the NJ Aviation Hall of Fame four years ago and started restoring her to her original Vietnam appearance. Good stuff!

Jon

19

Thanks Ray and Jon,

I’m a Paramedic and we’ve just got these new blunt end syringe needles for drawing up drugs and flushes which are 1mm across. Perfect. I’ve only seen them in one size so far, I’ll have to ask our stores manager if they come in 1/48 as well!!! They don’t go near any patients so no worries about infection. Guess I’ll be canulating loads of patients in the next few weeks. I reckon I can get 2 pods from the one needle. How would you guys cut surgical steel?

Thanks again, Rich

20

The most common warheads on the rockets were 10lb and 17lb, 10lb being the shortest.

Now if we could only get a decent AH-1G in 1/48th.

Think, but I am not positive that Fujimi ended up with the old Aurora mold