Some modelers prefer all of the extra parts as they feel they aren’t getting their money worth if the kit utilizes simplified engineering. Hasegawa kits are well known to include tiny little detail parts that are very difficult to remove from the sprue without damage & equally difficult to clean up. Tamiya sometimes oversimplifies detail for sake of easier assembly, and I have seen posts trashing them for making their kits too easy to build. I agree with most of what Tom says about the Trumpeter kits. The ones I’ve bought have very inaccurate interiors & very marginal decals. Their newer kits have improved fit, but they aren’t perfect. Still, many of us have wanted a decent kit of the Vigi for a long time & though the Trumpeter kit isn’t perfect, it’s the best one available. Want to wait another 20 years for Hasegawa or Tamiya to kit one ? If so, great, but I’ll just quietly build the pricey, imperfect Trumpeter kit while you guys are waiting [:)].
All valid points…but something to remember…there are thousands of photoetched sets, resin update sets, individual link tracks, turned barrels, and add-ons or conversion kits…why? Because no matter how good the kit is, there’s always someone who wants more. I hear about guys buying aftermarket stuff to correct the original Gunze High-Tech kits that already came with the stuff! I guess my question is, where does it end??
I do agree with the 105 landing gear problems, though. They should be able to support the weight of the model. Back in the day, I built a 1/72 Airfix B-26 Marauder. It had so much weight in the nose to make it sit on its gear, that when I put the model down, it would shimmy from side to side like a hula dancer. Eventually the gear just let go.
I also built the Hi-Tech Hasegawa Me-262 (1/32) with the metal gear, and every month or so, I’d have to bend the wheels back vertical, as the weight of the model would cause the wheels to camber inward.
My problem isn’t so much about lots of parts you use or don’t use…or see or don’t see…I simply want a kit that fits! After spending over a hundred dollars on a kit, I don’t want to have to spend hours correcting ill fitting pieces.I say, " If Accurate Miniatures can make near perfect fiittng kits, they all should."
Want a real challenge…try buying and building a collect-aire kit. Great subjects, very pricey, horrible fit and soft detail.
The Tamiya 1/32 F-16CJ also provides an excellant looking engine that is impossible to view once installed. It would be nice if kit manufactuerers (sp?) who are intent on providing extra trees with extra parts supplied same that would be helpful in displaying all these wonderful extras, hence in Tamiya’s case - an extra set of turkey feathers.
Straight out of the box, I agree whole heartedly that the accuracy issues and extra parts that are less than helpful for the price. But to the person who spends an extra 20 minutes looking around can find the kit at 25% less than MSRP and then take that extra dough and invest it in card stock at which point, they could open the engine bays and do other corrective work in the cockpit. Tho, for the price and the scale that shouldn’t be necessary.
But then this is why my most favorite modelling companies are Revellogramm, revell AG, Accurate Minatures, eduard and roden - you know what to expect , besides they are cheap and allow more room to support the aftermarket cause.
I agree with you Tom, Trumpeters kits should be a lot better in quality considering the prices we are asked to pay for them. This is not the first time I’ve heard of build problems with these kits and and attractive as some of them are, I intend to give them a wide birth until the prices are lower or the quality improves.
Well Trumprter is hi priced stuff but look at the new 1/32nd Tamiya F-16. $168.00 msrp! Granted it is awsome and has some ground breaking features like detachable weapons that I do not think they would have done if Trumpeter had not pushed the envelope with new ideas. I bought one f-16 from Tamiya but if it was cheaper I might have bought more. And now Academy is realesing the same F-16 in 1/32 for $109.00 msrp! Companies might be getting the idea and there might be a price war. Maybe some other company will try to release a Vigi in 1/48 that is more correct and cheaper. All I am saying is not to punish some companies but to encourage them to do better. Maybe FSM should have a poll to see how much people will pay for a accurate kit of xxx or yyy. Or maybe a list of the best bargains for the money. I vote for the Hasegawa 1/32 Bf-109 series that was released at $39.99 msrp. They could have asked more but they would not have sold so many. Most people who bought this kit bought another one after building it. As for the Trumpeter F-105 I understand the problems but remember this kit was only there 5th 1/32 kit they made because the mold was cut right after th A-10 but not realesed for 4 more years. That is why it looked like a giant steep backwards when released. Trumpeter is getting beter with every release and hopefully the prices will level off with competition. If they price there new 1/32 Me-262 decently they will sell a ton! Instead of saying "I got ripped off!’ the companies will respond better to “They could have done better for the money” or “I would buy one if it were cheaper or better” remember before you shell out the big bucks get a review first thats what this fourm and FSM mag is for.
I’m getting the Trumpeter 1/24 scale P-51 is it worth the 90 smackers that i’m going to pay out for it?. I haven’t got it yet. would i be better off getting the 1/32 scale Tamiya zero instead? it’ll cost me about the same.
I have a suggestion for Trumpeter and the other companies that make complex engines that are hidden inside the finished build. Add just few more “parts inflation” parts. Just the few exhaust items necessary to plug that inch wide hole in the tail. The the modeler can have a plane that looks like it has the engine installed and still have the complete one for external display. An engine maintenance stand to put it on would be a nice additional touch. I think the new Tamiya 1/32 F-16 has the cart, but you still can only have the engine either “in” or “out”.
Just think what kind of money someone could make if they were equipped to make an after market exhaust to fill that void yardbird… man I wish I knew how to do that.
I enjoyed building Trumpeter’s series of Mig-21 aircraft. I supplemented my build with photoetched details, resin details, and aftermarket decals BUT the kits were a great starting point. I would rather spend my time updating a Trumpeter kit with aftermarket details than struggling to restore kit parts from a Dragon release needlessly obliterated by ejector pin flaws. I don’t mind spending a little more money to have a nice replica of a few of my favorite aircraft. I was thrilled to see the A-10, Mig-21, and F-105 all released in 1/32 scale. I wish it had been Tamiya that had released these kits as you get better value for your money, however, I am glad that someone took the risk to release them.
I also bought the RA-5C. I posted my thoughts on the kit several months ago. One of the first things I noticed was it had no intake trunks. A kit this expensive, you would think they would include intake trunks with it. When you look down the intakes all you see is empty void, main wheel well boxes and just a sight of the engine compressor. As far as posing the engines out, it would require a lot of extra work. They are missing many items which should have been included with them. The oil pump accessory housing, engine driven gear box, main fuel control, AB fuel control, CSD and generators, numerious electrical control boxes, valves, actuators, wireing harness, hydraulic lines plus too many more to list. They did include the main BLC duct on top of the engine.
You can just bet Blackbox will come out with a cockpit for it and maybe Seamless Suckers will release the intakes. Then I will start building it. Untill then, the box will collect dust. Which is a shame, because with a kit this expensive, you should not have to buy after market items to produce a good looking model.
Has anyone in this forum been in contact with Trumpeter? I would think a solid stream of negative feedback/suggestions might produce results…at least on future releases.
Berny, you hit the nail on the head with your post. I noticed that if I left off the big square panel that holds the tail hook and its bay, and yet again seems to serve no function as an extra part, that if this were made removable, you could display the engines in situ. Then I realized the first thing you’d have to scratchbuild was the unique cylindrical bomb bay, which on the recce version was used to hold the extra fuel tanks so the wings could be left clean (for those building the kit with pylons, you might think twice. Just try and find a photo of an operational Vigi with anything under the wings. Even the flash pod included by Trumpeter is a red herring. There again, five parts each for two pods that were virtually never carried, and even then, there was only provision for carrying one, mounted under the left wing only. It was learned before the planes were deployed to Vietnam that setting off a zillion candlepower strobe light for your night photos was a good way to make a nice bullseye for the flack gunners.
Also Berny, since I haven’t got to the intakes yet, I hadn’t thought of the dead-end intakes and lack of trunks. Now I’m even more depressed. But, I think we can rest easy that at this very moment some cottage industry go-getter is making an extra set of turkey feathers and associated hardware from resin so we can pull out those nice J-79-10’s and show them off if we want. Unfortunately, I’m building on a deadline and have to show the kit as it comes from the box.
I also have the big Tamiya F-16CJ. It is night and day as far as quality. Of course, we’re talking about another 50 bucks for Tamiya, but by Trumpeter’s standards, Tamiya gives you an extra hundred bucks worth of model. (And we could do a whole other long, long thread on the problems and expense of a great portion of Tamiya’s catalogue, so it’s not just Trumpeter that needs more scrutiny from us, the consumers.)
The engine stand with the Tamiya Viper, as reviewers have pointed out, is a little marvel in itself, a true mini-kit. And you even get the screwdriver for the little self-tapping screws that hold major assemblies together. That’s looking our for the builder.
I think one problem with Trumpeter is that, yes, they did get better by about 300 percent overnight. And with a bit of success with, say, that A-10, they went berserk releasing more and more kits, like a franchise restaurant business that expands too fast and the quality suffers. I hope this doesn’t cause Trumpeter to implode before it really does become a first-class maker of scale model kits, like what we are seeing from Tamiya and now even from Academy, which has always had the status of “the best of the second-rate kit makers.” And back then, Trumpeter was low in the third-rate pile. I’m willing to give them time, but not money, until things improve.
TOM
High prices is one reason I wait until the kit I want is on the shelf at Hobby Lobby during one of their sales before shelling out the retail price. I used to rush and out and get the newest kit on the market but now I’ll wait a year or two! I remember my first Hawk P-51 kit in 1/48 we bought for $1.00. I had to con my little brother into putting in his 50 cents! The hobby had come a long way since then. The prices are high but so is everything else lately! I guess it boils down to just how bad you have to have that new kit! I just want them “half” as much as I used too, heh, heh!
That is one true statement! I built an A12 a couple of years ago and had a time putting it together, but once finished, it came out ok. This was my first resin kit and I learned alot about how to work it!
I, too, bought the Trumpeter 1/32 scale A-10 N/AW for a much discounted price. After looking at the kit, with all its parts, and reading reviews, it turns out the cockpit is underdetailed and the engines are too small. I bought a Verlinden cockpit detail set and basically lost interest in it.
I am mostly a model ship builder, so my comments come from that line. In the beginning Trumpeters ship kits were poor. They looked more like cheap childs toys than models. Then the learning curve kicked in. I am currently modifying a Hornet to the Enterprise and to be honest, the 1/350 Hornet is an excellent kit. The fit in some areas is a little rough, but, Ive enjoyed the challenges of making it work. I for one am thankful that someone is putting out a variety of kits. Tamiya certainly has not released anything in a while in 1/350. Hasegawa either as far as I know. Trumpeter has though, they have listened to us the modeler, and for that I am grateful
I tend to agree with most of what was said, but not all.
Sure, the trumpeter kits aren’t super accurate, but what model is 100% accurate? exactly. none. I just reciently got the SU 27 1/32 from trumpeter, and it is possibly the finest kit I have ever built. Sure, it cost $110ish, but it was worth every penny, and then some. How many manufacturers go through the trouble to box the 2 fuselage halves in individual boxes, and the burners and canopy in another, and the intakes in yet another? These days, All I see is 1 big box with everything in it, in a few bags. I like the way trumpeter molds all the cockpit parts on 1 sprue, and all the landing gear on another.
As for the f105 landing gear, There are 3 options. 1. Make it accurate, like it is now. It’s weak though. 2. Make it strong. that makes it inaccurate. 3. Make it metal. Then the csot would go from $100~ all the way up, perhaps reaching $130. I personally would pay the extra money for the accurate strong metal landing gear, if they offered one.
Also, molds aren’t cheap. I’m guessing an average model mold costs approx $1000 per part.
Sometimes, there’s a reason why some parts are molded in 2,3,4, or maybe 10 parts. Maybe it’s sinkmarks, maybe it’s for bettter fit, better detail, we don’t know.
Instead of complaining about what a kit doesn’t have, look what it does have and judge it on that.
For large parts like 1/32 and 1/24 scale, especially the larger parts in those sets, a good quality die will cost in $10K’s of more. Then, consider to costs of maintaining the die. The one area I give Trumpeter credit for is making the investment in the large dies. I prefer 1/48 scale, but if I were a large-scale builder, I’d be so happy with the new releases fromTrumpeter, I’d need to take a cold shower.
Where model companies make it or break it is in the area of R&D. I think if Trumpeter would allocate some resources (heck, hire a guy like Sharkskin who absolutely throws himself into each project) to study and understand the subject, they could be a world class company.
Generally speaking, in business, you each compete in the market because your prices are low, or because you offer something (quality, technology, etc.) that others don;t have. The latter can charge the higher prices because becuase they know they’re good. And if you want the best, they are your only avenue.
Unfortunately, Trumpeter has come in and basically said “we’ve got 1/32 scale sets cheaper than Tamigawa”. They are playing the price game. Which means they don’t want to throw a little more investment into the R&D area, becuase they are minimizing their costs, not trying to make a “better” product than Tamigawa.
I just looked at my 1/48th Trumpeter RA-5C, and it has 2004 dates all over it and the box. What kit do you have that’s 10 years old already? I thought this was a completely new release, not a re-release.
Sorry to hear about the problems with this kit. I was hoping for a great kit. Oh well. As long as it still looks like a Vigilante when I’m finished…
Oh, and I agree with everything you’ve said about the the model companies. Unfortunately, I, too, am guilty of perpetuating the problem by buying the Tamiya and Hasegawa and Trumpter and etc, kits.
I mean, you’re all talking about overpriced, you should be ashamed of yourself.
The Tamiya kits are beautiful, but they ARE overpriced. Hasegawa has soem nice kits, but htey too ARE overpriced.
I have the Trump A-10A, beautiful kit, with lots of fancy parts, the SA-2 is simply gorgeous, the transport truck is also something to behold. I have the Sovremenny too, smiply excellent, although I wish they’d put railings in with all the rest of the PE.
Overpriced and bad? look at PANDA, their ships suck, and so does their helicopters, I have the misfortune of having both their UH-1 and UH-1N, look like toys both of them.
Nah, I think you guys are a bit spoilt. If the model is not up to your standards, don’t buy it, simple as that. The model is BRAND NEW and already there is a black box pit for it. I dont think it is too long before the “suckers” will be available, and I’m sure Eduard will haev some phancy PE for it in no time at all.
If you don’t want the expensive one, scratch it, or buy the original Hasegawa 1/72 bird.
