Yes, I know this is heresy, and I’ll be flamed, but I’ve always felt that the Trumpeter emperer was no less naked than Tamigawa or any other multinational hobby corporation.
I’m well into the build of the 1:48 RA-5C, and I am one of those who’ve wanted it for many years. This kit bears an MSRP of $75. It is, like most of their kits, IMHO, grossly overpriced. Like the $120 1:24 Spitfire floatplane I’ve had to stop in mid-build while resin correction parts are made for some major items, like the entire aft fuselage and horizontal tail, for instance.
I believe when a firm is going to ask that much money for an all-injection molded, mass market kit, they must be held to a higher standard. Like most of their kits I’ve encountered, the Vigilante is nicely scribed, and the shape is generally OK. But it suffers, also like so many of their kits, from what I call “parts inflation,” the addition of unnecessary, unviewable and unused components for the airplane being modeled. But you can charge $75 for a kit when you say on box it has 240 parts in 1:48, can’t you? Well, I didn’t do an exact count, but I’ll bet when this project is finished, probably 50 or sixty of those parts will be unviewable, or inaccurate for the kit, and will not be used unless for structural reasons.
I don’t need the two admittedly highly detailed, quite nice J-79 engines when there is no way to pose the model with an engine outside the airplane. Nor is there any way to remove one for display without leaving a big hole with a yawning empty space behind it. But let’s say you want the engine. Why build the wheel wells in two parts each when it could have been molded in one just as easily? The cockpit as well is full of flat, inaccucurate, unnecessary bulkheads and parts that would have been molded integrally with the cockpit by any other firm.
Mind you, I’m not talking about parts that add detail by being separate rather than molded together. I’m talking parts molded separately for no other reason that to up the number of parts. It just seems that Trumpeter likes to see reviewers talk about the cockpit made up of “dozens of parts” when in fact they are superfluous. The seats, which are not correct for this late model Vigilante, are nicely detailed, but you can’t see 75 percent of that detail when they are installed, and the portion of the seats you can see above the consoles and from the front (which is all you can see) have almost no detail we’d consider up to modern standardsl. There is no provision in the kit for molded in or separate harnesses, which were quite prominent on the Vigilante’s unique North American ejection seats.
No RA-5C ever carried nuclear weapons. Forget the fact that, under extreme circumstances and with modifications it could carry external “special” stores. So could a C-130 if it had to. There is no need for an extra 14 underwing parts that were never used on the Vigilante. The extra fuel was carried internally in the bomb bay almost 100 percent of the time, and it did not have a flash pod on both sides. But that adds more parts for no extra investment by Trumpeter, and ups the price.
But enough bellyaching and kvetching. Yes, I’ll be happy to have a 1/48 Vigilante on my shelf at last, but I’m not going to ever join the chorus who see this company as the savior of modeling. Reviewers are not doing their jobs. They let this company get away with things that Tamigawa or Revellogram would be strung up for in print (at least by publications that aren’t in bed with them via the advertising departments, but that’s a problem of our hobby for another day).
It’s time to stop being so excited at this deluge of subjects in so many scales. Yes, it’s nice. But how much extra do we have to pay for those ridiculous etched hinges and metal shafts that don’t even work, so Trumpeter or fawning magazine writers can say the kit includes “dozens of PE parts and extras.” Oh, and while I’m at it, their film instruments are garbage. There, I’ve said it all.
This shouldn’t have turned into a kit review of the Vigi. Sorry guys, I meant it as a complaint about almost all the more elaborate Trumpeter kits and sneaky marketing tricks. We just should be more critical and demanding as prices go ever and ever higher, and we’re being fooled into thinking we’re getting more for our money.
TOM
I agree that Trumeter has not ever received the full frontal reveiw that they need to show the problems with their kits. I admit I have a couple, but I do have some corrections to do. The prices for their kits is a bit on the steep side for the problems they have. Look at the Wildcat, it had to be pulled and redesigned due to the horrible reserch and molding of the first kits. It still has a few problems. The landing gear in the F-105 kits is too weak to support the finished kit! I support and second all of your veiws!
Sounds like you would have been happy if they never made the kit. If they left out the extras people would still bitch! With model molds costing arround $500,000 and thats not including the research and engineering cost it is a miracle we have any new models. If these prices shock you don’t try model railroading. If the model is correct or incorrect the mold still costs the same.
I am just about finished with Trumpeter’s F-105D (32 scale) and I agree with what Tom said. The MSRP on this kit is $150. When a modeler pays that amount of money, (or even wholesale), they expect to at least have landing gear strong enough to support the model. Those PE hinges and metal shafts are absolute garbage and the cockpit is woefully inadequate. Comparing this kit to the Academy 1/32 F/A-18 is like comparing night and day.
Darwin, O.F. [alien]
That’s pretty much why I don’t go in for those highly touted (and priced) kits with all the extra parts. I feel for you Tom… I totally understand your point and agree with you. It would be better to make the kit a really great (fit and form) kit, not include the meaningless crap and allow for after market goodies. Unfortunately Trumpeter seems to just want to jump on the “cash wagon” created by this “huge scale, super inclusive, 2000 part kit” fad. At least you can feel good knowing that you’ve given warning to all those who may have made the same mistake, I for one appreciate it.
No, Tom…no one is going to flame you for expressing your opinion.
I agree with what you’ve said - wholeheartedly - but I’ve not yet had the opportunity to view or build the above mentioned Trumpeter kits as yet - and I don’t think I ever will - they’re just too expensive for my tastes.
And lemme tell you - for THAT kind of money, I’d expect as perfect a kit as has ever come out of an injection molding factory.
More often than not it seems that a good set of aftermarket details (cockpit, wheels and tires, flaps etc) when fitted to an older, possibly “less accurate” kit of a particular model, will make a superb replica of the real thing which is just as detailed or better detailed than many of these superkits - and often at far less cost.
I think I’ll leave the “perfect” kits for those who need them - after all, it’s the build that interests me - not the built model. Once it’s finished, it’s just another dust collector.
Thanks for the heads up and for voicing your concerns. This kind of info will make me a little more wary of running out and buying the 1/35 Chinook (if the price doesn’t do it first) that Trumpeter is announcing for release later this year.
Thanks for the warning Tom. I have not build any Trumpeter (what’s with their name anyway, some kind of wrong translation ???) kit yet although I have been tempted by their “Leopold” and their Swedish tank.
As for the high prices, I think that depends on where you are, the Leopold for example is about 15 € cheaper than the one from Dragon (again, I can not comment on the quality) and some of their kits are not available from any other manufacterer. However I have seen that high prices are somewhat typical for manufacterers from former comunist countries (cfr Roden and Eduard).
I have long stopped complaining about prices, since here in Belgium, modeling is more expensive than most other countries due to tax policies (25% instead of 19%).
Thanks for the heads up, Tom.
I’m working on the 1/32 A-10B N/AW from Trumpeter right now. Thankfully I got a deal on it off of evil-bay and paid half the MSRP. That being said, the kit is great if you want an externally accurate 1/32 A-10. The cockpit (both of em) is pretty crappy overall and I’m having to scratchbuild the main panels. Detail on the side panels is soft and inaccurate and will have to be redone in order to make a presentable interior.
I’m happy that they are doing such great subjects, but I will add my voice to the protest. Too much price for not enough accuracy. Too much extra kit and not enough where it SHOULD be… then again, who says China isn’t a capitalist country!
Our of curiosity…how old is the RA-5C offering? I’m no expert and pale in comparison to most of your experience, but from what I’ve heard Trumpeter was makinga “resurgence” so to say. THeir older kits were notoriosly crappy, but they were moving towards a “better quality” product while trying to corner the 1/32 market. I havethe P-38L Lightning kit and have been relatively happy with it, albeit it was a gift so I didn’t have to dish out my hard-earned money.
Just my 2 cents.[8-]
I couldn’t agree with you more, Tom. The part that gets me down is that we’re doing it to ourselves. As long as we’re out there buying the stuff, why would Trumpeter or Tamiya lower their prices? They’ve now seen what we’ll pay for a model; good, bad or otherwise. I think we know by now that Trumpeter has the reputation of being a “colse but no cigar” kind of producer. Yes they’re coming out with unique subjects but they stop short of hitting a homerun with it. Great subject but lousy cockpit. A rare plane but inaccurate shape. I’m hoping we the consumers will smarten up by now. I’m hoping that speaking with our dollars still means something out there in the business world. Everyone knows that all manufacturers have minor flaws in their kits (seams which need filling, flash, etc) but if you’re going to charge as much as you do, stop giving us crap. And we should be smart enough to not buy it.
Sorry but this has been my little form of protest. I refuse to buy Trumpeter and certain Tamiya kits because I feel like I will have been raped at the cash register and then I have to turn around and say “Thank you” for producing the kit.
Eric
Thanks for the support, guys. I really didn’t know so many people felt at least partly as I do on the subject. As for the argument that we shouldn’t complain because of half-million-dollar molds, well, that’s all the more reason we SHOULD complain.
Compared to the price of the molds, research costs are chickenfeed, and research is either not done, or, much more likely, ignored in order to make the molds cheaper, as in fudging on correct length, width and shape and squeezing more parts onto a sprue, and cranking out more of those notorious double-sprues to up the parts count. Frankly, I don’t lose sleep fearing that Trumpeter is not turning a profit because they make so many sacrifices for their beloved modeling customers. I assure you, Trumpeter is doing just fine. But I predict in another year, two at the most, they will be dropping things from their catalogue left and right because the scales will have fallen from their customers’ eyes and people will vote with their wallets. This is what forces quality. It’s good old free enterprise at work. BTW, is Trumpeter Taiwanese, or from Communist China?
Mucker, the RA-5C kit bears a 1995 copyright, and correct me guys, but I think it was officially on their January release. However, many early shots were making the rounds last fall.
Finally, don’t ignore the fact that I said I am happy we finally got the Vigilante so many of us have wanted for so long. But now I wish it had been done by Monogram, and given the subjects position at or near the top of almost every “wish list” poll in the past ten years, including FSM’s, I’m surprised they ignored the demand, since Revellogram is, if nothing else, sensitive to market demand. But Trumpeter is moreso. And given the quality of the newer Revellogram kits, going back to the Ju-217E and the Ju-52, as well as other kits, of five-seven years ago, they are making outstanding kits at half the price of Trumpeter’s. We complain about them too, but they are looking very good right now.
Oh, and I forgot to mention: The decals on the Trumpeter Vigilante kit, right down to the word NAVY, the BuNo fonts, and the squadron markings, as well as stencils, are unusable for a halfway serious modeler. Colors, shapes and fonts are wrong all around. So are most of the kit marking on the 1:24 Spitfires. For the Vigi, the Zotz/Albatros AM decal sheet (also available for the Trumpeter 1:72 version of the RA-5C) is outstanding in all respects. I found only one color mistake on it, and it offers something like eight machines to choose from.
TOM
When I originally bought this kit a few months ago, I posted a thread and gave some photos “inside the box” for review. I definitely noticed that the engines were not displayable, and they are mini-kits within themselves and said as much. Do I feel a little ripped off?? Yes, I guess so. For me, I just compare it to kits like the Tamiya bubbletop P-47 in which we get those “extra parts” (props) that we can’t use. I usually end up throwing these excess bits in the spares box, and eventually I’ll get around to utilizing them in some way on other projects. That way I get some value added.
I recently got burned again when I bought the Hobbycraft (Trumpeter) P-40, the one with
the shallow cockpit.
If you think about it, even mongram did the exta parts thing back in the seventies, offering about ten different versions of the FW 190 in the box (just one example). You can only build one, so what do you do with the rest of those guns ,bombs and fuel tanks??
This marketing ploy is really nothing new, and it is a cross we must bear to participate in the free market economy. I agree that complaining does sometimes work, but in this case, response and corrective action will be a long time coming, IMHO.
Steve
As you have all alluded to, we can speak the loudest with our wallets. I know that every time I buy a kit, I check out what the good people from this forum have to say, as well as build reviews. Of course I review the availability, price and details.
Lack of sales by Trumpeter will either force them to improve their kits or lower theie prices. In the meantime, their hungry competitors will be happy to pounce into their territory.
Gentlemen,
The ballot box is at the cash register. The suggestion box is at your finger tips. Let the company know how you feel. The Wildcat did not get changed out of the goodness and kindness of the company’s heart. It got changed because folks like Tom let them know the kit was bad.
Tom, anytime you want to sound off about a kit I am all ears. That goes for the rest of you as well. For the prices we pay for the kits we should be able to expect quality.
I’m hesitant to jump into this conversation, because I see things from several angles, as a modeler, as a writer/editor for a modeling magazine, and as a former resin kit producer.
Back in the old days, when I was a kid, we all built models. I knew lots of kids who built, but very few adults. As a result, kits were inexpensive, and could be found nearly everywhere, including the local Five and Dime (or J.J. Newberry’s Drug Store where I grew up).
The manufacturers have followed us as we’ve grown up. Kits in the 80s were more expensive than they were in the 70s and 60s, and in the 90s, they were more expensive than they were in the 80s. We as modelers are a graying community, let’s face it. The number of new modelers coming into the hobby is not what it was 15-20 years ago, before the internet, Xbox and Playstation.
My point is (If I actually have one) is that model companies view their customers as more experienced, wiser, older, and financially better off. As a result, they price their kits higher because they know we want, and expect more for our money. They also see us buying resin and photoetched detail sets, so they figure we want more detail, so they add it., not understanding that we’d all prefer an accurate, easy to build over a highly detailed, but inaccurate one.
I’ve built Trumpeter’s ships, and they’re very nice, and worth the $80 - $100 I pay for them. Same thing with their 1/16 T-34s. I’m building one now, and its been a joy to build. Pricey, yes. I look at it like this…
This T-34 has taken me 4 weeks of solid work, and it’s about 1/2 done. My family is in NJ until the end of the school year, so I’m a plastic model bachelor, I can average 3-5 hours per night, 5 days a week, and all weekend if I choose to. That’s been the norm since I started this T-34, there’s already 100+ hours into it (ok, I do build slowly) with another 30-40 to go. I equate that time into the cost of the kit…so if I’m paying $1.50 to $2.50 an hour for this entertainment, it’s well worth it to me. I can certainly spend more money per hour doing just about anything else, movies, golf, or wasting away in the local pub.
Trumpeter kits (at least the ones I have) are not weekend builds. They require time and effort, and that’s they type of model I enjoy building (to each his own of course). Some folks want the end result, the model on the shelf, completed. I don’t enjoy building as much as painting and weathering, but I still enjoy that part of the process more than putting it on the shelf and admiring it. If that were the case, I’d collect diecast and skip the build process altogether.
Trumpeter is still a young company when you consider their competition. There’s still a learning curve, and as someone mentioned above, their kits can still be hit-or-miss. With regards to prices, well, it’s just something we all have to deal with…you have to pay to play. Nothing is getting any cheaper these days.
There’s nothing wrong with voicing dissent over the costs of kits, or their quality. As long as its done in a manner that can effect change, then I’m all for it. I’m not making excuses or sticking up for Trumpeter, but my experience with their kits I’ve built thus far has been positive. Granted, there have been some accuracy issues, but its nothing I haven’t been able to overcome with the experience and skills I’ve developed over the years , or resin update sets! 
My two pence,
Jeff
All good points Jeff… I’ve never looked at breaking it down to the dollars per hour. I guess with 72nd I’m coming out ahead![:D]
I think there is no excuse for the weak landing gear on the F-105.Dosent Trumpeter test-build their models before putting them into production?I have built the 1/32 scale Wildcat and found it to be an excellent kit,but the PE hinges do not work very well and are so stiff that I hesitate to move the control surfaces for fear of breaking them.I was lucky enough to purchase the kit for $29.00 dollars because the kit was opened for demo purposes.It never occured to me that a company would inflate its parts count purely for the purpose of justifying a high price.
Thanks for the review, Tom. I haven’t bought a Trumpeter kit, though I admit to being one of those naive customers who think, “Hmmm, $120… must be a great kit!” I’ll think twice-- no three times-- when it comes to parting with the dough.
At any rate, lately I’m leaning the other way: trying to build models on the cheap and enhancing detail by scratch-building. This is truly great value per hour. A sheet of styrene sets me back $1.89, after all.
Take care,
Mark
Well… we do live in an era where mini-vans are sold based on how many cup holders they have… and how many blades they can fit on a disposable razor dictate how well it will work. Heck…while eating breakfast today I noticed it promised two scoops of raisins in my raisin bran… [:D][:o)] That’s the kind of consumers that are out there… it’s just crossed over to the model industry. Bigger is better… and worth more $$$$$. When’s the last time your McDonald’s hamburger looked like the picture on the menu board. We live in a world where quantity counts not quality.