Cmk makes a stug Field and Factory modification set. Do you all think that this set could make a late Stug III G, and what were the differences?
it looks like its got the corrections for the Tamiya Stug G
What corrections?
heres the instuctions
Tankbuild, The Ausf G was a long production run vehicle, and had many modifications along the way. The Tamiya (Early) kit has issues with the rear armour plate, but the rest is basically okay.
The AM kit has the shot deflector introduced in October 1943 and the newer muzzle brake fitted from May 1943. The cast mantlet and steel return rollers were introduced from November 1943, but the spring activated gun travel lock was not introduced until July 1944.
As to making an Early into a Late version model with the AM kit alone, it will not be enough:
- The kit instructions tell you to remove 3 little circles moulded to the roof. These are the fittings for the Jib crane introduced in July 1944, so you would need to leave these alone.
- The loaders hatch in the kit is the early forward/rear opening type, whereas the late model had side opening hatches. If making a ‘mid’ (not correct term) stug with these hatches but without the remote MG, a new Mg mount would still need to be added to the roof.
- The kit has the very early bolted on armour plates, and these will have to be modified to make a later welded version.
- The kit Schurtzen and hangers are the early type, later type were mounted diferently and did not have the smaller additional upper centre segments.
- The remote controlled MG was introduced in March 1944, but not all vehicles were fitted with them due to shortages, even so the mountings were there for retrofitting when available.
- In May 1944 the close support weapon was to have been fitted to the roof, but again shortages led to the hole being covered by a plate.
- In December 1944 special couplings for a rigid towing bar were added to the rear hull.
Personally, I would build it basically OOB (in fact I am doing it right now - late for the Stug GB). If you don’t want to do it as one of the kit decal options you can still build it OOB as an Italian front vehicle. A pic of a captured intact Ausf G Early of May 1943 build, with smoke dischargers, schurtzen, bolted plates and no zim, is on page 17 of Osprey New Vanguard 37 Sturmgeschutz III & IV - overall Dark Yellow. No division signs or markings on the schurtzen, just the cross on rear hull and side of hull.
Also Allied-Axis #10 has some great pics including a column of Early’s on a training Execise in the Netherlands (my build is going to be this vehicle).
Sorry for the negative waves, but I hope this helps.
Well, i am wanting to build one that has the field modifications. I thought that all of the ones with the saukopf were lates… Th one i am building is one that served in russia in the summer of '44 and has the tusks and eyes on it. It doesnot have the r/c mg. i had a picture of it, but i lost it… I’ll try to build it. and whats wrong with the tamiya stug’s rear plate.
Here is what iam shooting for…
Well, it has the late hatches and sideskirts but no travel lock…
CMD makes a Stug III late conversion. Has anybody used that?
I think that it would be easier to use the cmd conversion. Too much scratching for me.
Hey what happened to my previous response?
The vehicle you pictured is of a common modelled vehicle, the boar’s head is an eye catcher. It will be a Nov 1943 to February 44 build as it does not have the travel lock, but has the later muzzle brake, amour shield for cupola, will have steel return rollers and has the topfblende. It will have zim, probably raked type although the pic is not clear. The schurtzen are the later type and you will have to either scratch build them and the mounts or see if someone does and etch set.
Go to the Stug group build thread
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=20049
and wade your way through the first few pages and you will see that this vehicle was a topic of discussion early on. There is a colour plate view and maybe more pics, unless they have been removed from the post.
yeah i had that pic, it said no zimm. If you click on the pic, you can clearly see none.
Hmmmm, unlikely. Some Zim was put on without any form of raking or trowelling, but this vehicle was definately built when factory applied zim was mandatory. From the distance of the pic it would be hard to tell if it had it anyway. The paste was very thin, and did not catch the light much, so it barely shows up in some closer pics. But if you got something that says it didn’t have it, then go for it!!! Just have fun, and don’t worry about the rivet counters.
we dont have all the stats on exactly when one variable went into production…we dont know if all stug factories were applying zimmerit, defense MG, spring-lock, etc. at the same times, or if even ever at all. you will find very late stugs with no zimmerit, mg, etc.
if you’re into complete accuracy, build your model according to an actual vehicle
the new tamiya stug beats the crap out of their old kit, but leaves something to be desired. the entire thrill of modelling for me is super-detailing , modifying, etc., to seperate mine from the rest. just try it and have fun
Sorry JC1000, but all factories applied zimmerit as ordered - no exceptions have been reported, that was German efficiency in practice. The different factories used different means and patterns in applying it though. In the field it was different, as many crews couldn’t be bothered applying it.
Over the years, and with the sharing of information taken by the Russian army during the war, we have been able to obtain copies of orders such as applying zimmerit, and also factory documents to support production numbers, modification orders, etc.
As to late production versions not having it, that was because an order was passed in September 1944 ordering all factories to cease applying it to any vehicles. As I detailed above, lack of MG’s, etc, was due to shortages in supply.
Tankbuild IS actually trying for accuracy in building THAT particular vehicle in the pic.
Well, you’re right about the zimmerit, but not about the other things I mentioned. NOT all factories used the same components, thats why two Stug IIIs produced on the exact same day, but in two different factories, might have radically different fixtures, gun mantlets (saukopf and block), MG armament, smoke dischargers, etc.
nice try but I know what I’m talking about, sorry man
do more research
jc1000
Gee, this is starting to get interesting. I’d throw my [2c] in, but I think I’ll wait. [:p]
How about i build it as i see it in the pic, NO zimm, NO mg, NO smoke gernades, NO travel lock. Only the nice saukopf with the boar painted with the number 111 on the LATE schurtzen and with the loader standing out of the SIDE opening hatches. [:D] i’ll keep you all posted on the progress. Gracias
JC not trying to get into an argument, I was talking applying zimmerit and referred to your post that way. If you read my earlier posts you will see that I did raise the subject of different mantlets, including the block mantlet being fitted to the end of the war - this was due to low supply volumes. My comments were relevant to the vehicle in the picture that Tankbuild wants to build, it was you that chose to generalise.
We are here to help guys with questions and have some fun along the way. We are not here to hammer each other over trivial facts - there are other Forums that revel in rivet counting to the 'Nth degree" should you be that way inclined. If you want to get nasty and verbally attack people, then you should be aware of your facts, before deriding others:
Yes vehicles removed from the front were often repaired and up graded with newer parts. Did field crews bother with adding niceties like Gun travel locks…No. Yes the factories used stocks of what they had first. But check your own references before suggesting others lack information, unlike other vehicles, there were few factories building Stugs until later in the war.
Alkett was the sole assembler of vehicles with the STu.K 40 75mm gun, until February 1943 when Miag began producing vehicles - a whole 10 vehicles of the 140 built that month to be exact, and their production was not in full order for several months. MAN built only 142 of the total 2412 vehicles built between February and October 1943, because thay had the spare Panzer 3 hulls. Alkett remaigned the primary vehicle assembler to the end of the war -approximately 70% of all Stugs assembled came from Alkett.
Brandenburger Eisenwerke produced all plates, made all the castings and welded together all the armoured bodies until Jan 1943 when Deutsche Edelstaherke began assembling superstructure bodies (not manufacturing whole vehicles)as well. It was not until late 43’ and mid 1944 that 2 futher firms were engaged to complete the superstructures - all with late model specifications.
Alkett was heavily bombed in November 1943 cuttng overall Stug production to 1/3 of the prior months, which is a fair indication of the number it produced as they still turned out some in that time.
The point I am making, despite your comments, is that you cannot have smoke dischargers on anything other than an early, they were not retrofitted, nor were they added beyond a particular date. They tended to explode if firearms hit them, so they were ommitted from production. Alkett was the only factory assembling stugs when the order to cease fitting them came about.
You cannot have bolted armour on anything but an early all others were welded. You cannot have the cast deflector on an early, unless it was field modified, but those parts were not supplied to field units so that is highly unlikely. You cannot have the side opening loaders hatches on anything but a late.
With the majority of assembly being done in one factory, then the chances of mismatched production runs is very low, not withstanding the vehicles issued without remote guns, etc…as I said previously, because the supply had not reached the assembler before the vehicles were shipped…but these were still manufactured with the appropriate fittings on the hull, just like those Panther Ausf G’s intended to have the night vision apparatus.
I hope you take some time to grow up, before you start attacking people from the safety of anonymity again.
Peridexion, your enlightening contributions to the forum are always appreciated. As always, you are a man that has the decorum to be polite, and the knowledge to back it up. You have been a great asset to this forum in the past, so feel free to add anything here, particularly if my resources prove wrong on any aspect. Cheers.
Tankbuild…Build away and have fun doing it. I will be keen to see the results.