Has anyone used Rapid Prototyping machines for model building ?
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I just read an article on using them for the aftermarket companies. They seem to be incredible at their abilities. I’m not sure that resin and etch in the traditional sense would be able to compete with the level of detail that they can produce. The article I read had such a level of detail on the jet engine pod that it made it imposible to use as a master pattern and cast in resin later. It also said of cost, that may also make the whole process too expensive to the average modeler. I am guessing that you read the same article DK. Sure would be nice to have access to one and a designer for a couple of weeks wouldn’t it?
It could be done, but it would be on the expensive side. You would need to obtain either cad data or digitally scanned data of some sort for whatever you wanted to prototype, and then send it into a company that specializes in that. These RPM processes usually use some form of plastic as the medium.
A couple years ago, I had been drawing a crummy tank of my own design in Solidworks. I thought that it would be neat if I could use the RPM to make it. Of course it never came to be, but you could start your own accessory business or something like that. Roadwheels, cast turrets…
The article I was reading (and can’t find again) was from a design engineer who had an RPM. He designed an engine pod for a “heavy lifter” (I don’t recall the plane. Something like a 707) in 1/72 scale for a friend. Anyway the detail that was able to be made in the turbine was so close to the real thing. With the spindle mounts and depth UNDER the compressor blades. The pic did not do it justice. The problem was cost. The time it took him to design and make the parts was not a day project to say the least.
I’m not an design engineer so I’m not sure how the hobby will be able to benefit from the advantages they offer. The cost and production time may make these unaffordable to the majority of the building public. But then again, the past has shown that we will pay for details. I think for the start of this new detail industry would be limited to the highest detail oriented parts. The remainder, road wheels and such, will likely remain in the resin market for the time being.
Imagine: A 1/24 car with the hood up, the engine apart showing pistons, cam shaft, push rods, timing chain and sprockets and all as one piece. How about a jet engine showing the internal turbines(cut away). A tanks open transmission. The possibilities are endless and limited by what we want! And I must stress want!
Drew
Drew you are absolutely right. My drawing, which probably would not have made full use of the RPM took a whole semester. The problem is that RPMs are not ment for the scale of production needed to mass market a model. They could be used to make a master pattern for resin casting, but, this sounds weird, some of the detail would be lost. Something that is incredible, the drawings from a specific aircraft, tank, car… could be adapted to be used to make masters. They would be nearly perfect. You could build a F-105 with all its 467,358,749,745,324,673,612,896,067,086 parts.
You forgot the three rivets on the HUD![(-D][;)][:P][:-,]
Sorry, you know how hard counting can be.[:)]
I have several RP machines I’m just looking for projects. I would like to produce a article for FSM on the differeent technologies.
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I hope our sillyness gave you some ideas DK. As far as an article, I would love to see it. I think a project may be what you are into building, armor? Help with ideas or something, post your general ideas, and pick the one you like from the replys.
Drew
DK666,
I ran across your posts while doing a search using the following --“rapid prototyping” hobby --.
I make molds of all types – Vulcanized Rubber, Low Melt Metal, RTV, Ferris, etc. I then use the molds to create waxes and then to do “Lost Wax Casting” in various precious metals, primarily Silver and Gold.
I want to do a Chess Set and wonder, if I came up with the CAD, is RP a viable medium to generate the master in order for me to create the mold?
RLW
Sure. No Problem.
I just posted a note on RP and the viability of it for my casting. I’m not sure that I agree with you on the detail comment, it may be true with a resin cast or a cheap mold but not with the hobby work that I do.
I have recently made a mold of a tie-tack gun appx 3/4" long of a Colt 6 Shooter. On the side of the barrel was engraved “Colt 6 Shooter” (or something similar). It was so small that it could only be read effectively with a mag glass. The vulcanized rubber mold that I produced replicated the gun and the engraving such that the wax and subsequent silver was still able to retain the legibility of the engraving.
I don’t have any experience with resin casting so the problems may be different.
Regards RLW
I don’t know if resin is capable of holding that sort of detail. Did you make the mold or the pattern with the RPM?
I don’t know either on the resin.
The gun master was a tie-tack that I actually took off of a tie at a club meeting that belonged to a fellow caster. It was made from metal but I don’t think it was Silver (It may have been) I thought it was just cute until he pointed out the engraving on the side. At which point I thought it was incredible.
I really didn’t expect to be able to reproduce the engraving and was pleased when it turned out.
I could probably post a picture (very close-up) of it tonight when I get home if anyone is interested.
FYI – Vulcanized molds are done at a temperature of 315F and held at that temp for appx 1 hr per inch of thickness. Since Pewter melts at above 450 it would be suitable for reproduction, as would tin or other metals. The only real problem is with some low melt alloys.
If I get something that melts at lower temp, I do have access to some exotic composit mold material that will vulcanize at about 160 F. However it’s expensive.
The other alternative is for me to do a “Cold Process” using great care, high vaccum, and long cure times. Then use that to produce a wax – use the wax to produce a Silver – do any required cleanup on the Silver Master – use the silver to produce a high quality vulcanized rubber mold and then create master waxes from that mold.
Hope I haven’t bored ya’ll – Regards RLW
Some Photos.
Some My Photos – I have made all of the molds, produced the waxes and cast each of these in Silver. The infant ring is setting on a 1/8 in burr to hold it upright
Ok, I found the original article I was reading on the use of them. here.
RLW welcome to the forum[#welcome]
RLW, I was not referring to figures or jewelry per say. You do great work with yours. It’s impressive. I was going towards scale modeling like what is shown in the article. That piece would be impossible to cast as one piece as the stator vane blades are away from the compressor blades. The under cutting of the compressor blades may not be able to be cast either. The vanes would need to be added after. The detail level that can be achieved is almost unimaginable in my opinion. Like Morter said earlier, an F-105 with all it’s parts and rivets. It may be a diffrent machine than you have though.
Thanks for the great discussion, this is what these forums are here for. I luv it! Can’t wait to continue.
I agree impossible AS BUILT. However, with some advanced thinking the the master could have been built in just two parts with the separation between the stator and compressor. In fact there is a dividing line already visible on the exterior of the vane assembly. It might (not likely) require a three or 4 part mold but that is not a real problem.
I have had laser engraving done on a couple of objects by a local supplier for some medallions. I then made molds of the plexiglass master and then produced the wax from the mold. Problem is that they are fundamently 2D with the 3d dimension being the thickness of the material selected.
In my thinking the real advantage is to do the design work such that the Stereo Lith can produce a master and then proceed from there to make a mold and the parts from the mold. The industry is not ready to produce Stero Lith in mass for a single customer unless it is for resale.
I did have a quote for one of my medallions about a year ago with some complex lettering. The price for a single stero lith was ~$300 but if I wanted 50 they would do them for ~$10 each. The rationale was that they could fit all of them on the same platform at the same time.
OFFER TO EXPERIMENT
If any one is interested, I would be willing to take one of your parts and go through the process of making a Vulcanized Rubber Mold that one of you could experiment with using resin. Perhaps we could get some additional detail that is not available with your current methods. I do know that you can do Die Cast of Low Melt alloys directly into my rubber molds. They would of course be heaver than resin.
Regards RLW
Small Chess Set
Concept JSF 1 piece build 33" Long
SONY Solid Creation System 8000 SLA Machine Bigger than the one in the reference article
Fine bit of casting work RLW.