I’m in the middle of planning my P-51D build (this is where I try to work out all the kinks before it’s too late).
Anyway, my problem is with the aerial. I see pics where sometimes it passes through the canopy, other times, it’s mounted off to the side of the fuselage. When it passes through the canopy, where is it connecting to - the back of the headrest or somewhere else? There doesn’t seem to be a lot of refernce for this, nor the radio/battery area. Photographers seems to glance over this area.
If it helps, I’m building “Petie 2nd”. I’d rather do it in wartime configuration as opposed to the restoration job.
I’ve got a Detail and Scale book at home which shows some great and unmistakable close-ups of this area of the canopy. The pictures show the aerial passing through a small hole in the canopy and connecting to the back of the headrest. Where the hole is, there is a small clear plastic roller serving as a guide. I’m hoping someone can verify this but, as I think about this as I type this out, it was a museum airplane so now I’m wondering if that was how it actually was or if it was more of a modern refinement.
Does anybody know?
Fred, if you can land your hands on a copy of this book at your local hobby shop, it’s a pretty good source of reference.
I’ve spent so much money on books lately, I don’t know if I can justify it for just one reference. I have P-51 walk-around and P-51D Restoration. The books have a lot of great detail shots of the pit, wheelwells and gun/ammo bays, but nothing on the areial or battery/radio.
Where on the headrest does the aerial connect? Is it in the middle or one of the sides? I don’t mind drilling a hole in the canopy, but I’d need to verify where it is first.
It’s as Eric described, except it doesn’t just attach to the back of the headrest. There is a small cylindrical tensioning device on the back (middle, slightly high of centerline) of the headrest where the antennae wire wraps around & then the wire goes to the radio. I don’t know of any P-51D kit that accurately models this much neglected detail.
would you happen to know where i can find that book? i’m building tamiyas D model in 1/48 in “Ridge Runner III” livery and want to build it in it’s wartime configuration. could you help me with this? thanks
you can get the detail and scale through either megahobby.com or squadron.com. I’m sure there are other places as well. But according to the book, it covers the p-51A, B and C and A-6 (or something like that).
You may not even need the aerial. I looked at alot of P-51 references and the vast majority of ETO based 51’s don’t seem to have it.
The aerial was used on early P-51D’s equipped with the SCR-274 radio. Mustangs in the ETO were re-equipped with the SCR-522-A VHF command radios and the antenna installation was in the mast antenna on the spine, behind the canopy.
HTH
Tony H.
P.S. I found a couple of photos of ‘Petie2nd’ over on the 352 FG website www.352fightergroup.com. I didn’t see any evidence of an antenna wire.
I guess I’m confused. Petie 2nd was a P-51D, and I thought the antenna mast was well back on the fuselage spine, as in the pictures of it from WW II on this site:
Here is a picture of Petie 2nd that shows the mast on the spine. Of course it could still have a lead coming through the canopy. Perhaps this is another opportunity for me “to get educated”.
On my website I have the relevant pages for the earlier canopy versions of the Mustang, (both radio installations) and it looks to me like all parts of the radio antenna wires andmast are mounted to the sheet metal between the two aft side windows which as is shown on another page were very light removable assemblies, not suited for mounting anything with air loads.
I could’ve sworn I saw pics of Ds with spine masts and aerial wires, but who knows anymore [D)]
But, while I’ve got all of your attention - inboard gear doors up or down when the plane is landed? I was just over at mustangmustang.com and have seen pics of them both ways.
Both ways or somewhere inbetween are all correct. After engine shut down the hydraulic pressure would bleed off and the doors and flaps would slowly droop down.
Mark is correct that the late model D’s with the new radio gear did not have an external antennae wire. Same is true for late model Spitfire Mk.IX’s. However, there were a mix of birds used by the 8th in the ETO & many did have the older radios & external antennas. You really have to check references for the D you are modeling, although it’s usually very difficult to determine from the pics. I usually model the D without antennae wires unless I have positive evidence to the contrary, but thats cause I’m lazy [:)].
The only decent pictures of “petie 2nd” I can find are all post-restoration, so who knows what changes were made. Heck, I’ve seen pictures where there were 2 "petie 2nd"s sitting next to each other - and the noses were different shades of blue.
So, I’m going no aerial wire and inboard gear doors down unless someone can prove 100% that that would be completely wrong.
Sometimes, the research is the most frustrating part of a build.
Fred, are you building the Tamiya kit? If so and you keep the flaps down the notch in the upper surface that is clearance for the wing fairing if you put them up, needs to be filled. This notch is not really there. Or Ultracast makes a replacement. If have done both ways and the filling is a fairly easy way to go.
In one of the many shows on the military channel, I saw a 51 start up sequence and you can see the inner doors come up as the hydraulic pressure came up. Then they sowed the take off run and it lifted off just as it passed the cameraman and the inner door came down, the gear went up and the closed again. But with the flaps and doors, definitely both up or both down.
yup, it’s the tammy kit, Marc. I’ll keep an eye out for that gap then. I wonder, since they mold the flaps for the down position, why they don’t have that area fixed for the flap down position?
Just one of the things that make you go “hmmm…” [(-D]
And you can save yourself a bit of work by not bothering with the fillet on the side of the fuselage. With the flaps on you can barley see in there anyway.
I found some info on that antenna wire running from the seat armor to the tail on the P-51D. It was for a low frequency range receiver, something that would not work in Europe as the ranges were in the US, and certainly not running if there were any in Europe in WW II. You listened to it, if you heard a morse code A you were one one side of the course, on the other side you would hear an N, and on the middle of the course you heard a continuous tone (and a lot of static!). All of that went out of use late 40’s early 50’s, the VOR system replaced it along with ILS approach facilities, and the military developed TACAN. You could also receive voice, but it was not a transmitter.
There was a relay box on the back of the armor, the antenna went from there through the canopy, and then back to the tail. I can see it in a few pictures where it exits the canopy, but most of the WW II era photos of D’s I have found so far don’t seem to have it.
I put the relevant pages from the D flight manual (August 1945) on my web site if anyone wants to look. There is a diagram of the wire but no detail of any mechanism to keep the antenna tight as the canopy moves like on the unblown FW-190 canopy setup. There must have been something in there for that.
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