Has anyone heard of a company in China called Z.H.L. that manufactures POB sailing ship kits? I came across their kit of San Felipe on ebay. It appears to be a very nice kit from an equally nice line of ships, and their prices are more than reasonable. Can anyone elaborate on their quality?
One very interesting kit that they advertise is of an American frigate of the Revolutionary War period, the Confederacy. It seems to be built of frames instead of bulkheads.
On a somewhat related issue, a friend of mine sat down to eat at a restaurant over there recently. When he was handed the menu, he noticed that the logo of the restaurant was one we designed a number of years ago for a golf community in Arizona. I get emails pretty regularly from China promising us huge jobs to design large buildings, if only we’d provide a portfolio of our work first.
becareful ordering wood products from China. Io import china has to chemically treat the wood for insects. if you live in CA this is strictly monitored with CARB compliance. however the treatment process can also cause the wood to warp from the amount of time it was treated and how much time the product spent in a shipping container. if it travels via the ocean count on 3-5 weeks spent locked up in a hot metal container. China is very good a producing replicas. so the quality can be very hit or miss. I have bought knock off items in my china travels and some have been very good quality. some never made it longer than a week or two.
I understand the problem, and that was my initial impression. However, the model of the Confederacy challenges the assumption of piracy in that no other company makes that model. Also, the stated scales of several of the kits differs from those of the European models.Hence, this post.
I think I will download photos of the completed models for a side-by-side comparison . . .
I have to echo the “be careful” advice.In another forum related to model railroad, a couple of members got
taken by a scam from Chinathat started with some pics of interesting model trains advertised for sale at very good prices. The pics of the models had actually been stolen from another website, then used to advertise non-existant models. The guys that ordered/paid got a box with a cheap knockoff wristwatch inside. When they contacted the seller, they were given an ‘apology’ and told to keep the watch instead (worth about 2 dollars) as the models were 'no longer in stock’There was nothing they could do.
Be careful
BTW: the pics had been stolen from the website of another forum member and still had his copyright notice on them
Bill, The difference in scale would be a simple accomplishment; it’s no trick at all to re-loft the plans. As for the Confederacy, Chuck Passaro has already designed plans for her for a pending issue by Model Shipways. I don’t kbow how the Chinese might have obtained them, but I put nothing past them.
Bottom line, I have heard over at MSW that there are ezamples that gave been determined to be exact copies of kits marketed in the west, and even if there are occasional honest exceptions, I would not buy from that market on principal until the government of the People’s Republic takes an effective hand in stopping the thievery. I spent several years in central Asia, In an area where it was near impossible to buy any manufactured goods other than shoddy Chinese copies of western products, complete with forgeries of the original manufacturers labels.
I have no knowledge of this particular situation. And I’m just as appalled as anybody else by the acts of piracy that seem to be so common among Chinese hobby companies (and all sorts of other Chinese businesses).
I do think, though, that we need to be careful about tarring all Chinese hobby manufacturers with the same brush. Let’s remember that Trumpeter and Dragon - two of the best plastic warship kit manufacturers in the world - are headquartered in China. Several other Chinese firms are starting to make a big impact on the western scale modeling scene (think HobbyBoss, etc.). And I have the impression that several of the big western companies routinely have their molds made, and their sprues squirted out, in China.
I’ve bumped into a number of heartfelt pleas on the web to “quit buying Chinese.” The truth of the matter is, for better or worse, that an American who refuses to buy anything made in China will have a hard time getting along in the world these days.
That being said, I’ll await with great interest any further information about this new POB company that Bill has found. It sure sounds suspicious - but the world could certainly use another genuine scale model kit manufacturer.
Thank you! I abhor piracy in any form and agree that this company should be avoided if they pirated kits or plans. It is incredible to me that anyone could condone such actions.
enemeink - CARB compliance refers to composite wood products, not to solid wood products. I work in the USDA as an export certification specialist and very familiar with both the import and export regulations on solid wood products. We are never sure what chemicals the Chinese would mix in to those resins that act as binding agents. Solid wood packing materials are also subject to an International Standard ISPM 15.
The main treatment is heat treatment, its the same as kiln drying (ever notice the KD symbol on lumber?), and the object of the slow heating is to get the wood to a moisture content below 18% with an internal core temperature of 56 degrees C for 30 minutes.Otherwise the wood can be fumigated with Methyl Bromide as an alternate treatment. We do have problems with the certification from China, corruption is running rampant, but it shouldn’t matter so much for the wood used in these kits. The thinest of the cuts of these wood strips will show any insect present.
The pests of concern are usually insects such as the Asian Longhorn Beetle, Emerald Ash Borer or other of their kin from China. China has concerns about the microscopic Pine Wood Nematode from North America, and Europe has concerns about the Oak Wilt Fungus from the Eastern part of North America.
Back to kiln drying, ever wonder why a 2x4 is not 2" x 4"? It was when it was green lumber, but after kiln drying it shrinks with the loss of moisture.
While there may be some loss of dimension by drying, I believe most of the loss of dimension from 2" x 4" to 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" is because, before or after drying (depending whether it will be sold as Green, or KD), the lumber is milled on all four sides to the final dimension. You can buy both green, and Kiln Dried lumber in these same dimensions (and what a difference in the weight of each!). You can also get what is called “Dimension Lumber” that is still 2" x 4", and I think I have also heard it referred to as “Rough Sawn” Lumber. Usually directly from a sawmill, and usually much cheaper than what you get from the home stores.
nailed it, a 2x4 has been 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 since i was a kid. Rough Sawn is a dimensional lumber available at lumber yards not at the h depot or the like.
Thats the truth, and in fact there’s been a few times during my licensure as an architect when the true dimension has reduced. Buying good framing wood is pretty hard to do. Buy it from a commercial yard for delivery and they send you crap. Buy it from a Home Depot type place and there’s only crap to choose from. The best way is to go to a commercial yard and pick it yourself. Main thing is the weight, ie how dry it is.
Here in the woods we can still buy a true 2x4 in redwood, but it costs about $ 3.00 a linear foot.
Back in my far distant youth I supported myself through school in large part by working for a large mill (Potlatch Forests, Inc.) in Idaho. I worked as a “ratchet setter” on the saw carriage, responsible for adjusting the cut dimensions under the direction of the sawyer. The lumber (Fir) is always sawn to the nominal dimension. Most of it is then moved to the “planer” where I also worked on the “offbearing” where it was planed to its final dimensions of 1 5/8" X 3 5/8" +/-1/8". Coming off the offbearing the finished lumber is checked by a grader who marks it in accordance with its conformance and general quality. The minor portion of the lumber that is to be kiln dried is always done so after the saw and before giong to the planer.
The questions remain . . . Is Z.H.L. a company that has pirated these kits or is it a legitimate company creating new and affordable kits? How can we the consumers tell? I am unwilling to assume that a company is illegitimate simply because it is Chinese.
if Z.H.L. is selling the same models as sold by these expensive European companies, to be sure they are pirated copies. Fittings and other parts may be substandard and made with products not allowed in the trade anymore (containing heavy metals, etc.).
Sorry for hijacking your thread over this wood shrinkage issue.
While in college I did take a class in Wood Science (Forestry Dept.). Shrinkage was explained by the loss of moisture within the wood. Different woods act differently, for example Redwood shrinks at half the rate of Douglass-Fir. The US forest Service has numerous tables on the subject, see the “Wood Handbook Ag. Handbook No. 72”
Mike, just to put a lid on this (hopefully), nobody would seriously make an “issue” over whether or not wood shrinks when dried. In the case of Douglas-fir, there are several varieties but ho fir shrinks radially more than a maximum of about 5% from green to bone dry. With a 2X4 that comes to about 3/16" over the 4" dimension. The major reduction in dimension occurs through the planer, amounting to about 12.5% or 1/2" over the 4" dimension. If the lumber is to be dried in the kiln it is done prior to planing and the planer setting is absolute; that is, it’s not set to refer to the existing dimension of the board. The lumber therfore, dry or not, comes out of the planer with the same dimensions and will remain that way except for what little moisture may go away through air drying before use.
No expert here, but by observation these things usually come to light when one of the experts compares the more recent kit to one they are familiar with, and the quirks of one are repeated in the next.