2x4’s are cut way undersize to begin with. After that they probably shrink too. 3 1/2 x 1 5/8 is the standard dimension if I remember right. I was shocked when I first measured one. Thanks, Paul V Carpenter
2x4’s are rough cut to correct dimensions but planed to current size. the framing of our house built over 120 years ago still measure the correct dimensions.
Here’s the table for finished lumber sizes. Rich explained the process well.
invisible table? is it made in china which is why it cannot be seen?
I wonder when Professor Tilley will include these Chinese kits in the HECEPOB catagory ?
Montani semper liberi ! Happy modeling to all and every one of you.
Crackers [8-|]
Okay, now that we have had our lesson in carpentry, let’s get back to ship modeling. [t$t]
If we are to use the standard that any ship model kit that has been produced elsewhere and is now being produced in the PRC is pirated, we would have to include the quite a few Trumpeter and Dragon 1/700 scale ships such as Bismarck and Tirpitz. Z.H.L. produces the San Felipe and Soleil Royal, both kits produced by Mantua. Are they the same kits? Z.H.L. also produces other kits that have not been produced by other manufacturers, such as the Confederacy. How does that equate into the piracy issue?
Looking at the manufacturers’ photos of both San Felipes, they do not appear to me to be the same kit. The Z.H.L. kit seems to have more detail overall and is proportioned slightly differently. I would appreciate it if others would compare and contrast them and comment.
Again, are these pirated kits? How do we, the consumers, tell the difference? Innuendo is one thing, proof is another. I would not like to purchase a rip-off, but I would not like to spend $1,000 either if I can spend $300.00 instead!
Bill
Bill, Aside from the smoking gun of Chinese piracy which I can testify to having been a victim of it on numerous occasions, is the larger issue of how Chinese manufacturers can undercut prices so drastically. I have a good friend, a PRC national from Shen Zhen, which is a manufacturing center. She’s an exporter, and very familiar with the problems we discuss here. I asked her about the stories we hear about the exploitation of labor in the 124 Nike factories in the PRC. She says it’s greatly understated, and shoukl include sexual exploitation of female workers (including minors), arbitrary punishment by way of witholding of wages, perilous working conditions, phusical abuse, and wages that don’t provide an adequate living in the current environment. I do not exaggerate.
When you spend your $300 you might consider the sacrifice other good people make to afford you that economy (including possibly kids like yours). The piracy and the labor issues do exist and by most accounts I’m aware of, are rampant. I suppose that there may be Chinese manufacturers innocent of these abuses, but until their government steps up to the bar and exercises adequate control I for one will continue to avoid supporting their behavior in so far as possible, and that includes shopping at Walmart.
There are Chinese laws against these practices. They are ignored, because they are not enforced, and that;s the reason behind this Chinese marketing miracle.
Bill’s points are certainly well taken. I haven’t seen any photos of the models in question - and I’m not at all sure that such photos would help much in determining the origins of the kits. Unless Z.H.L. is using the same photos as the companies from which it’s pirated (certainly a possibility), there’s no easy, definitive way to tell whether two finished wood ship models built by different people were based on the same kit. (You may get lucky and be able to identify something distinctive, like a figurehead or transom ornament, but it’s entirely possible for two modelers working from the same kit to produce results that don’t look at all like each other in a photograph.
The precise definition of “piracy” in cases like this also has a little wiggle room in it. Model Expo, for instance, has, as I understand it, obtained license from Amati to sell a slightly simplified version of its H.M.S. Belerophon kit - at a considerably lower price. Amati is a well-established HECEPOB company that saw the light a few years ago. Its selling a series of Nelson-period British warship kits that were designed by a gentleman who used to work for the British firm Calder Craft, aka Jotika - which, as I understand it, has brought legal action against the gentleman in question for…well, for I’m not sure what. The bottom line is that the ethical and legal ramifications of this stuff are pretty hard to unravel.
Unless and until I have good reason to think I’m not going to be ripped off, I certainly won’t buy anything with the Z.H.L. label on it. (In practical terms, it’s highly unlikely that I’ll buy any of the kits we’ve been discussing in any case; $300 is more than I’m willing to pay for a kit of any sort, except under really extraordinary circumstances.) It seems reasonable to expect that, if Z.H.L is a legitimate company selling high-quality merchandise for legitimate prices, we should see some ads for its kits on the websites of some of the well-known dealers, and in the pages of the magazines.
Oh - and HECPOB stands for Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank-On-Bulkhead. Since Z.H.L.'s kits appparently are relatively modestly priced, and made in China, the acronym doesn’t apply.
I’ve taken the “cheap” rout and built a pritated kit of an RC plane. The parent copy retailed for $150 and the knockoff for $30. I spent way more in time and replacement materials, not to mention the planes were off dimensionally, then what I would have spent if I bought the original.
Lesson learned, I got what I paid for and to me I would have been better of with the $2 watch.
Gentlemen,
First, allow me to say that I agree that pirating other manufacturer’s products is reprehensible and deserves punishment and boycott. Child labor, exploitation of women, and slave labor are even more despicable! I will in no way buy any product if it can be shown to have been pirated or to have violated human rights in their labor practices! Indeed, as a high school teacher of history, civics, economics, and international studies, I have used the Chinese proclivity towards these issues in many lessons.
That said, does it follow that all Chinese products are rip-offs of other nation’s manufacturers or violate human rights among their work forces? Of course not! As John Tilley remarked earlier, there are two highly respected Chinese model companies that are setting new standards of excellence in plastic model kits . . . Trumpeter and Dragon. Nobody has accused them of pirating others’ kits or of using slave or child labor. Let’s compare their prices with those of equivalent manufacturers from other nations.
The Japanese company Hasegawa has followed Trumpeter and Dragon in manufacturing 1/350 scale warship kits. Hasegawa’s battleships cost approximately $300.00 to $350.00 while Trumpeter’s and Dragon’s cost around $110.00 to $150.00. Please note the 3:1 ratio between the kits produced by the Japanese and the Chinese. Additionally, there is an almost 4:1 cost ratio when comparing Hasegawa’s Akagi with Trumpeter’s U.S. carrier kits! The Japanese Tamiya kits cost less; yet, they are twice as much as the exact same kits produced by Academy, a Korean company.
Panart (Mantua) produces a kit of San Felipe that costs approximately $1,000.00. The Chinese company produces a larger scale version of San Felipe for around $300.00, again showing the same 3:1 cost ratio. Z.H.L. also produces kits of ships that no other manufacturer produces! How can those kits possibly have been pirated?
Neither Trumpeter or Dragon have been accused of using substandard materiels in their kits. In fact, having built many of their kits, both set high standards of quality in their materials. Yet, the insinuation in this thread is that Z.H.L. is using substandard materials in their kits because they are probably pirated anyway, therefore they must be avoided because they are Chinese and use unfair labor practices, child labor and exploit women! Gentlemen, these seem like unfair conclusions at best!
Why can we argue that neither Trumpeter or Dragon pirate their kits, nor do they use slave or child labor, exploit women, or generally use unfair labor practises but argue that Z.H.L. does on the basis of Z.H.L. being a Chinese manufacturer? Their price ratio seems to be that of other respected Chinese companies. How can we prove it one way or the other?
Again, I will not purchase a pirated kit if it can be shown to have been pirated, to have used unfair labor practices, or exploited women and children!
Bill Morrison