This is the type of armor/artillery I was involved with during the Vietnam War era 44 years ago.
I’ve been looking for a top quality 1/35 scale model of the M109 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer and Tamiya’s item #37013 seems to be the only one available.
I like Tamiya models, but there are several high quality model armor/artillery manufactures in the market. I would like to know if there is another choice before I purchase the Tamiya model.
That Tamiya kit is a re-boxing of the Italeri kit. The orignal kit was produced in 1983 and several companies have box it since in different variants. As far as i know these are the only 35th m109’s on the market.
Thank you Bish, that is a cool provenance website for models.
My first choice in traceing the history of a kit and finding any reviews.
Hello Sergeant!
It’s very interesting to see your post here. I’ve just started building an M109 A-nothing, but in 1:72 scale. Revell has released this kit like half a year ago and it’s quite nice - but it might be too small for you.
I was thinking about building an M109 in 1:35 too, but what stops me is the interior. On all the photos from Vietnam that I see the M109 is always wide open, and I would like to show my gun like that, but hen I would need some interior for it - and that is a hard thing to do. Do you have any photos of the interior of the M109? Or better still, a TM?
There are a few very nice models of the M109A2 in 1:35 around, so what can be done (and I already started gathering the resources for that) would be to take the hull and suspension from the modern kit and plant the turret, or maybe just parts of it from the Italeri kit. This way you would get to use the modern quality parts most of the time, using the old Italeri parts only where applicable.
Looking forward to seeing your build - good luck with it and have a nice day
Paweł
Hello Pawel, your desire to model the interior of an M109 is right-on target in my opinion since I spent many hours on the firing-line with crew members and we always had the back doors opened.
The video link below is the most accurate view of a Vietnam era M109 I have seen, but it would be a major task to model from scratch. However, if you did and displayed your model anchored with the back doors opened in firing mode that is exactly the way they were used in combat.
I had a similar issue with a 35th AS90 i built at the end of last year. They usually fire with the back door open. And while the resin AM set i had included some lovely detail on the rear door and side hatch, there was nothing else insid. It was a shame to have the doors closed, but i just wasn’t up to scratching the inside. That would be some impresi9ve work if you did that on the 109 pawel.
Bish and Pawel,
If you hadn’t mentioned the interior of an M109 I probably would not have gone looking, but see what I found in 1/35 scale.
i.ve seen the blackdog stowage sets before but not an interiour detail set.That looks very nice.
Now Sarge: It say on the kit it’s an interior for the A2 version. Now we’re looking up to you to tell us (better yet: show us!) what needs to be done to make it an A-nothing interior. Some things, like the ammo rack in the back of the turret are obvious. But what else?
Thanks in advance and have a nice day
Paweł
Well Pawel I sure put myself in a corner! You’re absolutely right the Black Dog kit is for an A2 version (long barreled) M109. I also could not find it listed on Black Dog Model’s website, so I wrote to them asking if it’s still available. It may only be available on eBay, or something like that. In the mean time I will look for details that might answer our question about an A vs A2 interior.
I have a retired Master Sargent friend who is knowledgeable about self-propelled howitzers and he might have some ideas.
I found the TM (Technical Manual) numbers for both the A and A2 version, please see link below:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/164748493@N04/shares/p7De00
I also found a description of major changes between the two versions, most notable is the gun mount which makes sence because of the barrel length, see link below:
However, I think there is an easier way to determine what changes took place by having the following book:
If I’m correct this book will show us the interior for both the M109A and the A2.
The main visual differences on the interior of the M109 and an M109A2 is a different rammer and an ammo rack in the left rear corner of the turret. On the M109 there is a rammer and tray attached to the rear turret ring. The rammer/tray folded in the middle and to the rear to fire. On the A2, the rammer is only attached to the breech of the gun. Most of the rest is the same. I have the Black Dog interior and Italeri M109 parts and plan on using them for an M109 that I will convert from the AFV Club M109A2 kit. In Boresight Magazine (AMPS publication) from Jan/Feb 15, there is a build article that shows exactly how to do it.
M109 Interior from youtube video showing the crew conducting a fire mission. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iswntrU0z6I
HeavyArty, thank you for answering many of my questions. I can see you have actual experience with US Army artillery and the 1/35 scale M109 Howitzer. Since you already have the Black Dog interior what do you think of it’s quality?
I would like to build the 1/35 Tamiya M109A mainly because I’m familiar with Tamiya models, but I have been told it’s actually an Italeri kit. That being said what do you think of the Italeri M109 quality?
My plan is to build a diorama with this howitzer in firing position and a truck near by with men loading ammunition. This is how I remember the firing line at Fort Sill in 1974.
The Black Dog interior is really nice and very detailed. I highly recommend it. It is made for the AFV Club kit, so I am not sure how it will fit in the Italeri (Tamiya) kit.
Yes, the Tamiya kit is a rebox of the Italeri kit, with a few updated parts. It is an OK kit, but has some issues. The biggest is the right front hull doesn’t line up well and requires quite a bit of filling and sanding to get it all closed up. The tracks are also pretty stiff and hard to get right. It is pretty simple in overall details too. I have built a bunch of the Italeri kits over the years since the AFV Club ones are only a few years old. I prefer the AFV Club ones as they are very nice and highly detailed.
The diorama sounds good. I would recommend the AFV Club M54A2 for the truck.
Hey Fellow 13B ‘Gun Bunny’. I started on the M109 with both the bustle (turret ring) and breech mounted rammers… ended up on the Paladin. I made a good representation with the first Ital. kit, which was an M109, rather than A3 or whatnot. You can still find them on ebay and with a little cutting and work they turn out okay. Sadly, as you well know, any M109 should have a FULL interior as missions were usually executed with the doors all open, so quite a bit of work to get the interior done right.
The interior in the link is nice, but yeah, not an M109… You’d have to make the wine rack, etc. Not that you’d notice, but I think the engine compartment bulkhead is also a bit different. I’ll have to look at my manuals.
Ron
D
HeavyArty and Ron, I found the following information regarding AFV Club M109A2 which looks to me like an M109, please see image below:
If I‘m correct this AFV A2 kit is made to look like the M109A but would probably work with the Black Dog interior and allow the doors to be open in firing mode?
I read the AMPS review on the AFV M54A2 and it definitely looks good to me.
My purpose in building a diorama using the M109 howitzer and truck is to display the models at American Legion Posts and the Veterans Hospital in my area. Many of the men are Vietnam Army and Marine veterans and some worked with M109 and Deuce and a half trucks, but I don’t think they will remember every interior detail, but they will definitely remember the short tube compared with the A2.
The picture you linked to is the AMPS article I was talking about. I don’t know why it is titled M109A2 as he is converting/backdating the AFV Club M109A2 into a straight M109. The Black Dog interior is made for the AFV Club kit, so it fits it perfectly. In the article, he used the old, out of production Trakz/KMC M109A2 interior hull and turret sets designed for the Italeri kit since the Black Dog set was not out at the time. He also used the M109-specific parts (short barrel, travel lock, pantel cover, turret rear doors, etc.) from Italeri’s kit to backdate it.
The M54A2 kit is great and is the exact truck that was used during Vietnam for ammo resupply. It will fit perfectly with the M109.
HeavyArty, I found a new Tamiya M109, item #37013 on eBay for $45.00, but it would ship from Shanghai, China and I would need to pay $20.00 return shipping if it was not as advertised. There are; however, plenty of AFV M109 A2 models available since I would need both to accomplish my objective. Most of the Tamiya M109 models are selling for $80.00 to $115.00, so $45.00 is a very good price. My first thought is I don’t feel comfortable about buying a model from someone I don’t know in Shanghai and second I don’t know how much work will be involved in retrofitting a Tamiya short barrel gun in an AFV A2 turret.
Based on the Carl Wethington article do you see any retrofit problems with the short barrel gun?
“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.”— Winston Churchill
The short barrel will fit the AFV Club kit without issues. From the article, it looks like the rest of the conversion will not be hard either. The Tamiya kit is overpriced in my opinion. Look for one of the older Italeri or Revell boxings as they are usually cheaper. Additionally, I order from overseas sellers all the time and have had no issues.