Lindberg Jolly Roger 1/130 by Brenticus

Modeling Subjects Ships
1

Greetings! Newbie here. After dabbling with a couple of Age of Sail models (one is still ongoing), I finally decided to do the Jolly Roger, by Lindberg (seemed a lot simpler than my Heller 74/ Le Superbe). This kit was also known as the frigate La Flore (originally) and also the Flying Dutchman. But now it’s the Jolly Roger because all square rigged vessels with cannon have to be pirate ships. Sigh…

Anyway, it was/is my intention to use this kit to create a sort of generic 18th century Royal Navy frigate, but not any specific frigate from the Royal Navy of that era. Also, I am building this as a gift for my mother (a motivation which helps all the mess pass muster with my wife), Patricia.

Thus, I decided to name her the HMS Patrician. No ships of the era are named Patrician, but there is a WWI vessel called Patrician, so there’s that.

Anyhow, I am working on a deadline so there are some corners I have cut. She’s a little paint-by numbers, very little nuance in the colors of the deck, fittings, side stripe, etc. And most of the yellow is not the correct ochre-color, but I think she still looks pretty good.

I am now done with the hull, excepting a few touch ups. She’s a little sloppy, by the standard of so many other builds I have seen, but I’m sure I will improve in time- and I doubt either of my parents will mind.

Here’s some pics, early and new:

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I have opted not to do ropes for the gunports on this build, for the sake of speed. I will be adding the ropes for my Heller 74 however.

So far I have to say the fit of this kit leaves a lot to be desired. The boards where the ratlines attach didn’t fit at all, and I had to whittle down some of it to fit. Same with the bowsprit, which I have test fitted.

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The ornamentation near the bow (I forget the word) absolutely did. Not. Fit. So I had to take it apart and bend it into shape…sort of. Hopefully it passes muster for a newbie, and hopefully nobody will mind.

There is no place to lash the boats to the deck, so I just glued a few strings around the boats and inserted the whole into place. I think the effect is pretty good, all things considered. I have also opted not to add ropes as gun tackle- hopefully no one will notice.

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A lot of parts needed trimming, and some didn’t fit. But overall, I’m proud of her. There aren’t many plastic frigate kits- especially at this scale. And the lindberg kits are very cheap. So while it is a flawed kit, I think it’s a good buy.

Now, I get to tackle the rigging of a Kings Ship for the first time. I will post updates as I take on this challenge! Wish me luck!

2

So, I finished the foremast last night, as well as the bowsprit. Both need some touch ups- pretty heavily in a couple of places.

The masts fit so poorly, needed so much shaving down and cutting, they might as well be from another kit. Honestly, these parts are a nightmare.

I had everything nice and painted (my mistake to not try and fit them beforehand), then I went to put it all together. The top of the fore mainmast would NOT fit through the hole in the top, so I had to cut the top of the mast down…and down…and down again. I probably cut about a fifth off of that mast around the top before it would fit properly.

Then I tried to fit the fore topmast. Not much better. It ended up getting stuck most of the way through, but just a little short- about 3/16 of an inch. I’ll have to fill it in with putty. It’s pretty well stuck not and weakened from the ordeal of getting in there at all. But it seemed like it would fit. Oh well.

Finally, the crosstrees where the ratlines (I’m using the standard ones, they don’t seem too terrible compared to some) was really just a nightmare. I was told to add the bottoms of the ratlines before fitting the crosstrees. But if you do that, then there’s NO room to get the ratlines far enough up to be locked into the piece before its fitted over the mast (which holds them in). So I had to pull out my ratlines from the fighting top, get them to stay in the piece (a job under the best circumstances), all the while also trying to slide that piece back onto the topmast. I fiddled with the thing so long, it became bent and weak with fatigue.

BUT. I did eventually manage it. And I managed to get the ratlines back in place on the fighting tops. I shaved down the topgallant mast (barely even tried without cutting) and fitted it. Then, I dropped the whole thing into place. Shockingly, the foremast itself fit perfectly into the hull, with no fuss whatsoever.

The bowsprit was fine, but their molded lashings around it won’t work. That’s fine, they look terrible anyway.

WHEW. One mast down, two to go.

Maybe the next two will be easier, but I’m not holding my breath lol.

Learning a lot though.

3

Looks to me like you’re doing a fine job with a decent kit. I’m currently in the process of converting this kit into a version of the HMS Surprise, as represented in the “Master and Commander” film.

You have a pretty steady hand for some of the detail painting, particularly on the transom and galleries. Very nicely done!

4

Thanks! I’ve seen your work, so I consider your words high praise. That Surprise’s stern gallery is really looking nice! I wish I had the patience and expertise for such a thing, as the Surprise/Rose is doubtlessly my favorite frigate of all time (I wanted to sail her, but they don’t really do that since the Maritime Museum and 20th Century Fox got a hold of them).

I appreciate the input, and I look forward to watching the Dear Surprise build progress!

5

Well, I’ve added the Main and Mizzen masts, etc. Same issues with fitting, but this time I was ready, so it wasn’t much of an issue.

Next, I get to rig a ship for the first time!

6

Nice work! Glad you are having fun w/ it.

Are you planning to forgo the kits lower shrouds and rig your own? Or is there some other reason you haven’t added them yet?

7

No, I’m going to use the kit’s shrouds for time’s sake (plus I think they look pretty decent for plastic…but I’m new lol). I plan to learn that particular art either on my first build or on my Heller 74 (Le Superbe).

Strangely, the instructions do not indicate I should install the lower ratlines at this point. In fact, it’s on the last page of the book, I believe. Strange, isn’t it? I figured it would be the first to go on…I’m suspicious about the sensibility of this order, but their rigging instructions seem pretty decent, so I’ll go with what I’m given.

The masts do fit very neatly/tightly, so that helps.

8

I’m building the Black Swan and looks like it would be easier to rig some of the rigging before you do more extensive rigging, but that’s just my opinion. BTW, yours is looking awesome.

9

I forgot to say that I’d rig some, before I put all the ratlines on, my bad!

10

Thanks!

Ah, well I believe I’ll follow your/ the instructions’ advice and go ahead and rig the ship first.

11

I know the Black Swan, in my opinion for me anyways, I’d like to run the running rigging first and not have to put up with going around the ratlines, there’s enough in the way as is. :frowning:

12

Then rigging first it is!

13

There are several possible problems here. In the first place, I’m afraid you may find that the Lindberg shrouds and ratlines [later edit: my to-danged-smart phone changed “ratlines” to “draglines.” I just caught it and fixed it on my Mac. Sorry about that.] just can’t be made to look right. I’ve always thought those stretchy plastic things were an interesting idea, but it didn’t catch on. I built La Flore and the Wappen Von Hamburg many years ago; I could never get the shrouds tight. (The rigging system depends on the shrouds being really tight.)

In a real ship the standing rigging gets set up first - starting with the lower masts and working up. The idea is that the standing rigging - the shrouds, stays, and backstage - make the masts rigid, so the running rigging won’t pull them out of line.

I’m not saying that the standing rigging HAS to come first. But I’m not at all sure that setting up the running rigging first will actually make things easier - especially with bendy plastic spars and stretchy shrouds.

Figure out the way you think will work best, and give it a shot. In the worst case scenario, you’ll get experience that will be valuable next time.

Good luck.

14

Thanks for the advice sir, for this is 100% new territory for me. This is a bit of a conundrum for me. The next step is the stays, I believe, but not the ratlines. I’d like to keep the kit ratlines simply for speed, but I don’t want the ship to look sloppy… My question is this: of the ratlines work for now, and the rigging keeps the masts secure (first of all, would the stays keep the masts secure enough?), would I be able to add more correct ratlines later? I’m guessing not because it sounds like they play too large of a role in steadying the masts athwartships, but I am not sure. If the kit ratlines do not keep the masts steady, what method of rigging the ratlines would you suggest? I have read of a few different methods so I’m not asking for too many details (I’ll look up whatever method you recommend, wouldn’t knowingly ask you to cover material others have covered) but I wonder which method you think would be best, especially considering time. I’ve got about a month but I’m pretty new to it all. Thanks again for the input, I really appreciate it.

15

The ratlines–the horizontal lines that the crew used to climb upwards–are less important than the shrouds, which are the vertical lines that proceed from the deadeyes to the crosstrees on the mast. These lines definitely secure the port-to-starboard stability of the masts.

The plastic deadeye assemblies on the La Flore aren’t half-bad, so I would consider using them as is, and then stringing heavy-ish black line from these deadeyes up to the mast. From there, and at this scale, you can install the ratlines by simply dragging thin black thread thru some CA glue, and holding it in place horizontally until it grips. When you’re done, just snip off the excess on each side.

At least that’s how I did it on my 1:196 Constitution, which was my very first ship model. Take a look at the project log if it will help. My own two cents is that you’ll be happier with the model if you do the shrouds and ratlines yourself . . . it will take a little while, but it’s something to be proud of.

Charles

16

Well, you’ve sold me. I think I’ll make some basic shrouds/ratlines myself. It’s another skill I need to learn anyway, and my build can only benefit from it. I’m sure a month is plenty of time for such a thing, right? I might try it with wires as Blue Ensign used in his outstanding Heller Le Superbe build (posted on a few different forums). Any opinions on wire vs heavy thread?

17

Wait, I don’t see that the dead eyes are separate from the shrouds/ratlines. Am I correct or would i cut off the shrouds from the dead eyes? Here’s a pic of the shrouds from the kit: If I am to use the current deadeyes, how would I attach the new shrouds to the old deadeyes? Just use glue/CA, or perhaps drill a hole in them? What would you all recommend?

18

Actually, I think im going to use the tiny little wooden deadeyes I ordered for my (postponed) 74 build, and use those to make the shrouds. I’ll be in a better position to do it again when i finish my 74, and it’ll look great. This will be a fun new technique. Though I think I’m still going to stick with the simple rigging in the instructions. I don’t think I want to start adding all of the blocks etc. just yet. I’ll stick with the little rings from the kit I think…this time.

19

Brenticus;

If you decide to use the kit deadeyes after all, just cut the shrouds from them as close to the deadeyes as you can get. Then just use CA to attach the new shrouds. I would recommend that you attach the deadeyes to the bulwarks before you attach the shrouds. You will also want to find some cordage that comes close to the width of the kit shrouds, especially since you already used the kit pieces for the top masts, otherwise I think it might look a bit too dissimilar. Looking forward to seeing what you do.

20

As I remember, the deadeyes/lanyards/shroud/ratline parts are molded in some sort of flexible plastic. (At least they were when I bought the original issue of the kit, longer ago than I like to think about.

I honestly don’t know whether CA or any other adhesive would stick thread to that plastic. Maybe; I just don’t know. Flexible plastics are notoriously hard to stick anything to.

In the photos, those “deadeyes” look mighty small. (The ones for the lower masts are almost certainly too small for the scale.) I’m wondering, though, if it might be possible to drill a hole immediately under the deadeye itself (through the “lanyards”) and run the thread for the shroud through it. That way you could seize the shroud around the deadeye more-or-less as in the real ship.

Another approach your might consider is to buy some “deadeye combo units” from Bluejacket. They have the lanyards molded in, and holes drilled in the right places to attach the deadeyes to the channels and the shrouds to the deadeyes. Here’s the link: www.bluejacketinc.com/…/fittings6.htm

The alternative is to buy some genuine deadeyes and rig them the old-fashioned way. To be frank, I don’t recommend that for a newcomer - especially one working to a deadline.

Quite a few people have used that old Lindberg La Flore kit as a basis for models of other ships. Given the small number of plastic sailing ships on the market, that makes sense. Unfortunately, though, it’s a mighty old kit; it was close to state-of-the-art in the 1960s, but it’s awfully crude by modern standards. And the scale is awfully small. As Brenticus is finding out, in sailing ship model the smaller the scale the more difficult the model is to rig.

Good luck.