I’m gonna toss a grenade: Let’s talk scale effect!

[Tim_Kidwell1]

For those who don’t know, the term “scale effect” refers to the idea that colors appear weaker from a distance, and that light ness increases the further away you are.

Among some scale modelers, the idea is that if you view a model at a certain distance, multiply that distance by the dominator of the scale and you have the distance you would be from a 1/1 version of the model. For instance, if you’re viewing an a 1/72 scale F-104 from 1 foot away, you’d be viewing the real thing from 72 feet away. Or if you’re 1 yard (meter) from a 1/24 scale Honda Civic, you’d be viewing the real car from 24 yards away.

Using the idea of scale effect, viewing the full size aircraft, car, or what have you, means that the color would appear lighter at a distance, and would be substantially more pronounced for small-scale models (1/72, 1/100, 1/144, etc.) than large-scale models.

The argument runs that the paint should be lightened. Ian Huntley, who did color research and wrote for modeling mags (including FSM) in the ‘80s and ‘90s, suggested the following percentages for aircraft: 1/144 scale—add 7% white to the base color; 1/72 scale—add 15% white; 1/48 scale—add 10% white; 1/32 scale—add 23% white. Now that doesn’t follow the small the lighter the color, but Ian apparently thought these values represented how the color would be seen in Europe (I assume on an average sunny day) as opposed to Brazil, Arizona, or Perth where climate and environment would affect your view differently.

Or there is the big scales get less white (25% for 1/48 scale—whoa!) and small scales get more (70% for 1/144–yowza!) school of thought.

Modeler: “But my 1/144 scale airliner is white! What am I to do?”

Paint Company ZX WeDoItAll: “Let us introduce you to our latest paint, None More White (No. ZX.000000-ridiculouslylongSKU). We guarantee a retina burn or your money back.”

Setting aside the fact that decal manufacturers are NOT thinking about scale effect, what are your thoughts on it? Do you use it? Or did you at one time and then discard it? Love the idea? Hate it? Never heard of it?

Grenade lobbed!

[Tojo72]

For my hobby,that’s way above my pay grade

Not knocking it,just too much thinking for me.

[the_Baron]

I don’t worry about it too much, though in the case of black, I will use a dark charcoal gray, or Tamiya’s NATO gray, to account for scale effect. In 1/48 scale, for example, black looks a little too dark, even with weathering over it. Or for uniforms, like the early Panzer uniform, or the Brunswick troops in the Napoleonic wars, the Prussian Death’s Head hussars. I’ll use charcoal grey as the base, and black for the shadows and a lighter gray for some highlights.
With other colors, my eye doesn’t notice the effect as much.

[Frozin]

Wow that’s quite a grenade to chuck out on a Sunday morning….

I’ve tried it a couple times, mainly 1/72 aircraft but I’m not stuck on it. I think it completely depends on the subject, scale, colours used and, of course personal preference.

In my opinion, cars, trucks, motorcycles etc with gloss finishes - I don’t see a need to lighten the colour, that just looks like faded paint at that point.

Military down to 1/35ish scale will usually have some kind of weathering even if just dry brushing that tends to lighten the colour. Smaller scales may benefit from some slightly lighter shades depending on colours used.

Smaller aircraft again might benefit from lighter shades depending on colours used. I’m not a stickler for using actual colours (FS colours for example and another grenade in itself), some tend to look too stark when applied to models. Mostly on grey naval jets like F-14s and F-18s, they look closer in shade on the real aircraft than on models.

I paint micro-armour as well (1/285 to 1/300 scale) and I absolutely use lighter colours on those as the aren’t large enough to reflect enough light with the darker colours. As others have mentioned, black is possibly the one colour that appears too stark in most scales and could use some lightening.

[dadoffour]

Footage of @Tim_Kidwell1 lobbing the grenade…

I’m still learning how to properly weather my model aircraft. Please let me learn algebra before you tell me I need an understanding of differential equations.

[SprueOne]

Recently been trying to learn to paint figures and models in Black & White film style.

Figure painting in general is sort of like scale effect painting. Weathering on vehicles seems to do this effect already.

I’ve noticed dark base color or actually black washes ran into door panel lines on cars has this effect.

Interesting topic indeed.

[fxsti03-42]

Jumps out the window to get away from the grenade blast

I know of scale effect. But I’ll leave that to those who are way better than myself.

As with others I’m still learning how to weather my models, let alone try to apply scale effects. I do well enough to make sure the particles in my paints are properly scaled.

As I get better scale effect will be something I look at, but this is not that day.

[WhatIfRebel]

@Tojo72

For my hobby,that’s way above my pay grade

Not knocking it,just too much thinking for me.

Agreed. I don’t worry about scale effect.

[pr154]

It’s something I’ve been aware of, but probably need to see two of the same models side-by-side with and without scale effect to properly judge it’s value as a more faithful representation of what the eye sees.

I suspect fully committing to the idea of modelling what the eye sees would mean being faithful to what the eye doesn’t see, which would subdue weathering or other operational staining

[Tcoat]

I am well in the scale effect camp! This is especially important to me on two subjects.
Figures are often “over” detailed in my view (Mine! I am not asking for anybody to agree with me). For 1/35 stand back 35 feet from a person and se if you can see the whites of their eyes clearly much less a black pupil.
The other is rust on small scale ships. A 1/8th spot of rust on a 1/700 ship would be massive in full scale. Rust in that scale should be hinted at not blatant since from 700 feet away it would just be a slight discolouration not gobs of dark rust.

Discoloured but no distinct rust tones to be seen.

[dadoffour]

@Tcoat I see your point on the rust. With that thought panel lines at 48’ away are hardly visible so a lot of the weathering we see on 1:48 scale aircraft would be extremely overkill if seen in real life. Food for thought…

[Tcoat]

A lot depends on what you are going for. If looking for a real world visual on the subject the scale effect will certainly come into play so panel lines would indeed be almost invisible in larger scales and and most certainly impossible to see in smaller.
If looking for a more “accurate” appearance as if up close and personal then yes all the panel lines and such would indeed be highly visible.
There really is no right or wrong on the topic as it is extremely variable depending on individual goals. No doubt there are some specific IPMS judging rules on such though.

[PhoenixG]

As with most things in this hobby it is a matter of preference and intent.

I don’t paint to objective scale effect. I paint to subjective experience. Most of the time when looking at the models I am thinking of their 1-1 counterpart and what it would be like to stand close to them. Because of that I expect to and want to see the details even if they wouldn’t normally be discernible at a given scale.

Painting with scale effect is probably most important when attempting to create a diorama or scene with a forced perspective. In that regard you are attempting to fool the brain into thinking things are further away to create a sense of depth. To achieve a more believable result it would be very important to do so. Perhaps some day I might attempt that, but not yet.

I would suspect that applying scale effect outside a diorama could create disharmony for the viewer. From a psychological perspective we use many visual indicators and comparisons to determine size and distance. If you’ve got a model sitting by itself on a table 3 feet away, but was painted to reflect viewing at 700yds away, it could look wrong to the viewer. Because according to all the other visual cues around model, the object is close and therefore the colors would look out of place.

Which again, is why I prefer to paint subjectively rather than objectively.

[gregbale]

I use it ‘instinctively,’ but I don’t measure or obsess about it. I learned a long time ago that if I mix “color chip” colors to paint a 1/72 or 1/48 model, it usually looks different (i.e. darker) than whatever photo I may be working from. So I just lighten it a little by eye - or, since I’m almost always mixing my own colors, I’ll just mix 'em to match the color photo or profile that caught my eye in the first place, and not worry about the color chips.

And, hey, who doesn’t love a good grenade toss now and again?

[Cold-War2-Cool-Jets]

Being a former, 35+ years ago, military photographer, I became aware of this (scale Effects) and another phenomenon as Lumination falloff. The latter effect being caused by the further distant away from an object, the lesser amount of light your eyeball/camera receives.
This is, at 1ft/mtr away from an object, the light is scattered to x4 less of its original strength, therefore, at 2ft/mtrs it become x9 less. This is proportionate to the F-stops on a camera being the square root of the number, i.e. for x9= 3 or 3.6 in reality.
I have dabbled with the idea of scale effect but in the end ‘It is in the eyes of the beholder’. Hope this helps in some way.
Great grenade toss by the way Tim_Kidwell.

[fxsti03-42]

Somehow I feel this grenade toss was more like this…

[dadoffour]

@Cold-War2-Cool-Jets

Being a former, 35+ years ago, military photographer

This right here is part of what makes this forum so awesome! The experiences brought here are so diverse and freely shared. Thanks for giving us this insight.

[Tim_Kidwell1]

@fxsti03-42

Somehow I feel this grenade toss was more like this…

LOL

This is exactly what I’d hoped for: good discussion. So less it blowing up at my feet and more it looked like a grenade when I tossed it but turned out to be a floral bath bomb.

[dadoffour]

[Matson]

I think if anything distant objects would be darker. After all, distant stars dont blind us. For sure though weathering tends to lighten colours but distance? I dont think so