Found these the other day and thought Jeeves might like 'em.
I initially thought that this first shot showed two warbirds but it turns out that it is, indeed, a wartime photo.
The info with this image states that these two Dauntlesses were enroute to attack Wake Island on October 5, 1943 and that they carried 1000 pounders.
This next shot also shows two aircraft, presumably from the same unit, returning from that strike on Wake.
I’d like to try and find out what unit these aircraft were with, but there were six carriers involved in the attack and the markings are pretty nondescript so it’ll take a bit of grunging about.
Anyhoo, hope Jeeves and the rest of you like these…
Wicked-- thanks Steve!! Its always great to see color shots from WWII as well…I wonder if you could look up that date in an order of battle somewhere to see what squadrons took part in the missions?
No prob fellas, I like doing this stuff. (hence the fact that I don’t build anymore…)
Yes, 'tis usually a simple affair of doing multiple searches to find that kind of info. When I posted the images above I’d done a quickie search to verify the date/target and came across references to the Essex, Belleau Wood and the fact that the surface force involved was Task Force 14 commanded by Rear Admiral Alfred Montgomery.
After a bit more grunging, it seems that these were the six carriers involved:
I also came across an image of two VB-9 Dauntlesses from Air Group 9 aboard Essex. This photo was taken during a strike on Wake and it has a similar ‘feel’ to that of the first image above.
Came across this image in a printed reference and the caption said VB-5, USS Yorktown.
The caption also stated that the massive buildup of the carrier fleet had yet to take place at this point in the war and so these aircraft wore no distinctive Air Group markings. It was only later in the war that these markings came about in order to avoid confusion between Air Groups.
'Tis interesting to note the difference in the camo patterns on these two aircraft and also that, in the color shot, the shadow from #1 gives #14 the appearance of having a different camo pattern than is evident in the b/w shot.
Another very interesting detail is the fact that #14 is equipped with the Yagi radar, having the antennae under the wings, while #1 is apparently not radar-equipped. This corresponds with the two aircraft in the silhouette shot, so I’d hazard a guess that the same two aircraft are shown in all three of these images.
Great images mate. I now call myself a fan of the dauntless, so thanks for the pics.
I’m pretty sure those aircraft are from the Yorktown. If you look very closely at the second image you posted, it looks like the spinner of the closest aircraft is green. And I think that green was the colour of Yorktown’s air group (correct me if I am wrong).
The prop hub is certainly green, but I’m afraid that I am not so well-informed on WWII USN aviation to know whether green was the second Yorktown’s color or not. I know it was Ranger’s color and that the original Yorktown was red but… Oh geez, I guess I’ll have to dig some more! [:p]
I found this on the ipms stockholm site. If you look halfway down the page, you’ll see a picture of a hellcat with it’s wing being foled on the deck. Now, if you read what is said below, it says that the green prop hub identify’s the aircraft from the yorktown.
that’s why I come here… to learn! picked up a lot from this!!! Funny but the AM kits never referenced a hub color even though they are all marked for specidfic birds!! (Lexington, etc…) I’ll have to dig into this myself a bit…
Steve, when building my second SBD I noticed the same thing about the camo… it varied somewhat from AC to AC… (was nicer for me as it gave me a free hand with my camo pattern without worrying about getting it all wrong)
hey this is interesting stuff !
im a prop fan myself which i find strnage cos im from the jet generation. but as long as i can remember, i ve always liked WWII USAF / USN aircraft, all props. there is something about airplanes from that era that make em so cool ! [:)]
now if i could only figure out what it was, then i could sell it and make millions ! mwhahahhaha ! [;)]
I know on the AM SBD-1 kit, there was mention of the fact that the nose bands were different colors…although I can’t remember what the differences actually were…will have to see if I still have that sheet.
Jeeves, the nose bands on pre-war USN/USMC aircraft denoted 3-ship sections or flights within a squadron.
Red - 1st section
White - 2nd section
Blue - 3rd section
Black - 4th section
Green - 5th section
Yellow - 6th section
A solid band all way 'round indicated the section leader. If the band only covered the top half of the nose it was the right wingman in the section and if it covered only the bottom half of the nose it was left wingman. I believe that all aircraft had a chevron in the section color on the upper surface of the uppermost wing. The section leader also had a fuselage band in the section color which was often times bordered by white or black.
Here’s a shot from the summer of 1940 showing a USMC SBD-1; 'tis a section leader from VMB-1 with a left wing aircraft from the same section in the background:
EDIT: This is the squadron leader’s aircraft, in fact, and so the nose and fuselage band are red.
Pingtang, thanks for the link. I wonder how the coloring system held up later in the war with all the carriers out there. When there were six flattops in the early days, it was probably fairly easy to keep 'em all straight and there were enough colors to go around. But later, with dozens of carriers… this is really getting me intrigued.
You guys are amazing! I wish that learning was this fun in school. Wonderful pictures Steve, not only because their from USS Yorktown (I’m a Yorktown fanatic as you all know) but also for the SBD’s. Thanks a milion for sharing. You don’t by any chance have any good pictures of F4U’s and Skyraiders from Yorktown and Coral Sea steve?
Ahh my bad Steve-- as I said- I know the instruction sheet had that info- I just couldn’t remember it on the fly from work [;)] Always love seeings pics of the Ess Bee Dee…
I know that early in the war, the aircraft had a code on the fuselage that gave the squadron that the aircraft was with. For example, aircraft number 9 from VF-13 would have the code 13-F-9. But they got rid of the squadron code bit and left the aircraft number, which makes it alot harder to track down what ship or squadron the aircraft was from.
Later in the war, they also had a system of shapes to identify ships. Like in that example I showed earlier, the Hellcat has a diagonal line on the tail, signifying it was from Yorktown. Combined with the colour code, it was pretty clear which ship the aircraft came from. Don’t ask me what the rest of the codes were though, I’ve got no idea.
Regarding te camo, the #14 aircraft looks like it has a field applied camo job. Most aircraft had pretty similar camo schemes if it was applied at the factory. But those that were already in service when the change happened had the sea blue applied in the field, and it was up to the painters interpretation of the orders as to how it turned out.
Speaking of the difficulties in studying colors and markings…
Jeeves, you may recall the long-winded bit I wrote on the other forum concerning all the changes in markings specs and such. The image below well illustrates many of the points made in that bit. This photo is quite the treasure trove…
The quirky FSM forum software seems to cause more problems than it solves… you can view the full sized image easily HERE. There’s also a link to a much larger image. For some frustrating reason you can’t make a functional hyperlink to a Photobucket image on this forum… grrrr…
Anyhoo, this well known shot shows Dauntlesses and Wildcats aboard Enterprise shortly before the raid on Marcus Island in March 1942. There are many interesting details to be seen including mis-matched insignia sizes on the same aircraft, inconsistent placement, partially overpainted insignia and one very good example of a crooked insignia.
Also, the smaller wing insignia on a good number of the Wildcats were not painted over before application of the larger insignia, leaving part of the smaller markings to ‘peek out from behind’ the larger markings.
I may just turn this into a full-blown picture thread…
