Thanks for sharing! Great photos.
Great photo Steve-O;
The story behind the mis-matched insignia sizes is an interesting one. At the time the orders were to have insignia’s on the wing be as big as possible, but without encroaching on the ailerons (as can be seen on the aircraft with smaller insignia’s).
There was a flight of VF-6’s wildcats returning to the Enterprise from a patrol when they were just about shot down by friendly fire. When they landed, Lt J.S. Gray (the squadrons CO), complained to Adm. Halsey. This resulted in the VF-6’s wildcats insignias being enlarged to include the flaps and ailerons. These changes were also made to Dauntlesses of VS-6 and VB-6 and TBD’s of VT-6.
If you are at all interested in US navy camo from WW2, have a look at the book, “US Navy Aircraft: Camouflage & Markings 1940-1945” by squadron/signal. There’s some very interesting photos like that one in it.
I like the idea of turning this into a picture thread. You always seem to come up with good stuff.
Dear frineds:
All your SBD color pictures are very nice, also your historys about this great plane, but let me write about a less know A-24 (SBD’s Army) user, the Mexican Air Force.
The Fuerza Aerea Mexicana (FAM) fly the SBD Dauntless since eight pilots of the FAM receive a dive bomber training course using Navy’s SBD at North Island navy station in late 1944. The Dauntless wich Mexican pilots using for training purposes at North Island received Mexicans insignias like the green/white/red triangles on both fuselage’s sides and the green/white/red bands on the vertical tail aileron, but was formerly belonged to the US Navy, using blue scheme and US yellow code letters.
At Mexico, the FAM received his first 30 Douglas A-24B Banshee starting in June 20, 1943 wearing new mexican serial number BID-2501 to BID-2531 (BID means Bombardero Inclinado Douglas for Dive Bomber Douglas) and two different color scheme: the first, using brownish dark olive green in the upper surfaces and light grey on the lower surfaces and the second scheme was natural metal finish with two red lines along each fuselage sides. The interior landing gear was in zinc chromate.
The Mexican Douglases flew localised anti-submarine patrols over the Gulf of Mexico from 1944, but by then the U-boats had long ended his operations in Mexican waters. In fact, German U-boats sunk two mexican cargo ships in the first days of May 1942. Then, the Mexican Goverment declared the war against the Third Reich in May 22 of the same year. In 1951 only eight A-24 was still flying and 7 more was out-of-service.
Best regards
Manuel
I’ve got Doll’s two earlier works published by Squadron, done in concert with Jackson & Riley, but haven’t picked this one up as yet. Those other two are among my prime references for early USN aviation. I’ve been told they’re full of errors, but I wouldn’t know what they are because, again, I don’t really know USN stuff too well. Now, things USAAF… that’s a different matter…
This newer volume undoubtedly has many corrections and I should grab it but I’d really like to get my hands on some of the Monogram books on the subject. I had one of them a long time back but sold it as I hadn’t the slightest interest in WWII Navair at the time! If only I knew then… oh well…
Anyhoo, the story about the insignia is a familiar one but only vaguely. Do you recall where you heard or saw it? It’s not in that Squadron book, is it? I seem to recall an article in Air Classics or maybe Airpower/Wings but I haven’t come across anything yet.
Manuel, thank you for posting that image and info. I’m familiar with the website where the image came from and it’s one of very few online sources for photos of FAM Banshees. Do you happen to know of any other sources with larger images?
Alrighty, next picture:
This is an SBD-1 of VMB-2 during carrier operations off the West coast on March 10th, 1941. The aircraft is from the 3rd section in the squadron and the upper cowl color would be a medium blue, as would be the wing stripes. The left stripe is faintly visible running across the wing and onto the outer portion of the upper dive brake.
You can find a larger image HERE.
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I’m afraid that I’m coming up empty so far, but my library and files aren’t as organized as I’d like them to be!
So there may be images lurking here and there which I have yet to rediscover. If and when I do find any, I’ll post them for you. Until then, your request remains in ‘the database’. Is there a specific timeframe you’re interested in?
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Thanks Steve! That last pic actually solved quite the dilemma for me… I got to the last insignia in the decal sheet and it tore… so I ordered more… they came in and they are MUCH smaller than the original set from AM… but looking at the planes on that deck they are the same difference from each other… (birds still not fully converted over to new reg sizes???) So I think I will do it on purpose… put one small one large on there… and reference that pic for the build. I found the appropriate size marking in the F4F kit I am building as a FAA MArtlet, but I think that is going in the spares pile as I have a mission now! haha
ACK!!! I just went on AM’s site and they discontinued the Dash-3 kit! I have to rush out tonight and buy one… it is the only one I am missing! (besides a -6)
That’s why I’ve made it a point to collect as much reference as I can. Unfortunately, I wind up sticking my nose in books so often that I don’t get nuthin’ built no mo… [V]
But as of late the research is much more satisfying to me than the building, so I guess it’s all good.
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That story is in the book. I remember hearing it earlier, but I got all the details from that book.
Tho990 - I’m lucky, I went out and picked up the SBD-3 kit last week. I’ve been looking for one for a long time, and they aren’t easy to find in Australia. So I was pretty happy to finally find one. I also picked up a copy of the squadron/signal walkaround of the dauntless. If you haven’t got it already, it’s worth buying. There’s some great pics and info in there.
Squadron has some SBD-3s for sale guys…they had them for $19.99 last month and talking with joe tonight- they are still that much according to their flyer!
All I need to round out the collection is another AM -5 to make a -6 from…just won a 3/4 combination from ebay.
Course- I could go crazy and grab the -3A that GM has for pre-order…and also build all three variants of the Banshee…but that is sheer craziness.
Another great book to pick up if you are an SBD hound is Bert Kinzey’s In Detail and Scale…I have the Squadron book too- but it pales in comparison to Kinzey’s book. I also found this one, but the fact that it is an overseas book that takes 3 months to ship has me hesitant:
http://www.aeronaval.net/index.html
Now I have to check out this “US Navy Aircraft: Camouflage & Markings 1940-1945” book you speak of [:)]
Found another shot of one of our friends from VB-5, still carrying a calling card…
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Nice image steve-O. That’s one I haven’t seen before. Is that a SBD-4 or -5? I think it’s a -5, but I’m not sure.
Now it’s my turn to post a photo or two.
Now, this second one is confusing me a bit. The upper color is too dark to be the early blue grey over light grey scheme, and that scheme wasn’t used when the SBD-5 was introduced. And it’s not the overall blue scheme, because if you look closely there is a demarcation line near the horizontal stabiliser. Plus the insignias are wrong for that time period.
Could be an A-24 in a blue camo scheme. The darker splotches around the wing edges look like an attempt at camouflage, I know some USAAF aircraft in the pacific had a camo scheme like that, but in a green. Anyway, whatever it is, it is highly weathered.
hope you like them.
I’d say it’s an SBD-5. Could be an early SBD-6 but then I’m not too good at telling the -5 & -6 apart. There really is no external difference between the two as far as I know, except that some SBD-6’s seem to have had the pneumatic tailwheel. I really am not sure…
I like that first shot you posted, I think I have another one taken from the same sequence; looks to be the same carrier, different aircraft. Although it has a different date on it… hmmm…
The second shot has been a source of consternation for me for some time, I’ve been trying to figure out which unit it’s from. 'Tis definitely an A-24; probably an A-24A from what I can gather, which would make it equivalent to the SBD-4. I admit there is a blue-ish cast to the photo, and color-correction doesn’t get rid of it, but there’s no doubt that it is OD over gray with the green splotches. Looks pretty beat up and faded, though.
The markings look like that of a training unit and the odds are high in that direction, as relatively few A-24’s saw action. But again, I dunno what unit it’s from. The maddening thing is I know I have this photo in a printed reference somewhere, but can’t find it! Grrr… I wish I had more dedicated references on the SBD.
While we’re on the subject of Banshees…
I’m fairly sure that these are all A-24’s, but the third one might be an A-24A. Kinda doubt it, though, judging by the prop.
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If the serial numbers for these is listed, I can tell you which of the Banshees they were as my Kinzey book has the variants listed by serial #…keep it up guys-- I am even learning new stuff here and getting ideas for schemes for my Hasegawa Banshee…
Nice images mate.
That third one looks like it has the same sort of camo job as the one I posted. If you look at the vert. stabiliser and wing leading edges, it has different coloured splotches. I think it was a pretty standard practice for USAAF aircraft in the pacific. they were trying to break up the outline of the plane apparently.
Your explanation of the pic I posted makes sense. It’s just the photo that makes it blue. And it also explains the insignia’s being non standard for the USN. Thanks for clearing that up (a bit).
Here’s all I can come up with at the moment. It is a F4U-5 on the Coral Sea. And you can even see a Skyraider in the background.
This one isn’t exactly a close-up image, but you can see some skyraiders sitting on yorktowns deck:
hope this is what you are looking for.
Well, I did finally come across something…
'Tis an AD-2 of VA-6B from CVB-43. Photo was taken at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba in February of 1948.
Still looking…
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Thank you so very much lads!
Very much appreciated[:D][:D][bow][bow][tup][tup]
Wow! Those are all great photos.
Hey Jan, do you have this one? I musta pulled it off the net but I dunno when or from where…
From what I’ve been able to dig up, it seems that these Spads aboard Yorktown, coded ‘NR’, were from VC-35 (later VA(AW)-35), the ‘Night Hecklers’. This was a unit which performed several tasks including ASW, ECM, SAR and night attack.
For anyone interested in this unit, you can check out the official site:
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