Fleet Air Arm Swordfish serial number - Raid on Taranto 1940

Modeling Subjects Aircraft
1

I’m building a 1/72 Fairey Swordfish of the plane crewed by observer Tony Wray during the British attack on Taranto on November 11, 1940. Sub Lt. Wray was my mother-in-law’s wartime boyfriend (unfortunately he didn’t survive the Stuka attack on the HMS Illustrious in January 1941). So, as a small memento to my family, I thought this would be a nice subject.

Anyway, Wray’s plane was number L4R of 815 Squadron but I have no idea what the serial number is - no Internet resource exists for this that I can find. It seems as though this book - Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939-1945 by Ray Sturdivant - might have this information but the book is hideously expensive ($900 on Amazon) and not available at my local university library (Stanford no less).

I also looked at the FAA Museum site but they seem to have placed research questions on hold for the rest of 2009.

So, does anyone have any other ideas as to how to find this information? Or, if someone has the Sturdivant book, I’d be forever grateful if they could ascertain the plane’s serial number.

Eric

BTW - The reason for 1/72 scale is complex - I know there is an excellent Tamiya kit 1/48. My source kit is the MPM issue first edition Cooperativa Swordfish Mk I (I couldn’t find the upgraded edition despite a worldwide search) plus Vector resin engine, ACE PE parts and some scratchbuild details.

2

Sorry, can’t answer your question but just thought I would recommend you check out Charles Lambs “War in a Stringbag” if you haven’t already for an amazing recount of that raid.

3

Tried worldcat.org and it show that 6 libraries in the world (as far as it knows) have it. Maybe someone local to one of them can check it out and do a little reading for you. Only 3 copies listed in the US (U of Toronto, Smithsonian, and Harvard U) Oddlly enough the other 3 are in the UK.

D

http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/36085831&referer=brief_results

4

There is a further possibility; the National Archive (formerly Public Record Office) holds several Squadron Diaries, for the FAA, and it appears that the two relevant Squadrons are among them. I’ve never seen a FAA diary, so can’t be sure what they contain, but, if they’re anything like the Operation Record Books of the RAF, there’s a possibility (and I can’t put it any higher than that) that the serials will appear in them. I go to Kew, fairly often, but present commitments mean that I don’t know when I can go again, but we’ll see.

Edgar

5

I have read some RAF wartime action reports and I have noticed that they almost always provide the squadron markings of the plane that the action took place in such as HF-C and the tail serial numbers. Also the pilot and co-pilot if present. This would probally be your best chance to find the tail number. I have no idea how you would go about geting the report though.

Soulcrusher[oX)]

6

Here’s a link that lists the marks by order date, with relevant serials, so you can at least narrow it down.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Swordfish.htm

7

To all the kind posters:

  • toomanyslurpees: Yes - I have read ‘To War in a Stringbag’ and thoroughly enjoyed it. I recommend it to others as it contains a wealth of information about other ops in the Med besides Taranto - especially a clandestine op with grim results.
  • Wrinkledm : This reference (WorldCat) I was unaware of. I might be able to talk my sister into making a trip to the Smithsonian Library. I also learned from another source that the Cambridge University library had a copy and I have a contact there as well. Thanks!
  • Edgar: Another good tip (National Archive/PRO). I’ll pass this on to my London contact
  • soulcrusher: This is a good clue - the After Action Report - most likely the source for how I learned from secondary sources that Wray’s plane was L4R.
  • bondoman: http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Swordfish.htm - this is useful as well in case I have to ‘make up a number’ - at least it will be plausible.
8

If your London contact hasn’t been to Kew, before, it’s possible that he’ll need a reader’s ticket. This will involve possibly two proof of identity documents, because they’ll ask for something with an address, and with a photo. A new driving licence might suffice, but they set great store, for a first-timer, by a passport, which, of course, doesn’t have an address, so he (or she) should go prepared. I can’t tell, from the website, how the diaries are preserved, but, if they are as original, a reader’s ticket will be a must; if, on the other hand, they’ve been put onto microfilm (like the RAF Squadrons’ ORBs,) it’s possible to just walk in, and help yourself.

Edgar

9

As I continue the research, perhaps one of you would be so kind as to answer this question:

Tony Wray’s Swordfish carried a torpedo. To provide extended range, a fuel tank was placed in the observer’s position and the observer sat where the telegraphist/gunner sat (position furthest towards the tail. A.J. Smithers, in ‘Taranto 1940’ states “the rear Lewis gun was never highly regarded and its absence bothered nobody” from which I imply that I should omit the rear gun.

Here’s the question: If the observer was sitting where the telegraphist/gunner normally sat, would the observer have changed orientation and been seated facing forward?

Apparently the ‘seat’ was a canvas box but it is not clear to me there would have been leg room let alone ‘work space’ to do charting (as the observer was also the navigator). I want to pose the Wray figure in the plane as he would have been during the attack and am not sure which way ‘round’ he would be facing.

This Flickr photo of the observer’s position shows a bit of the telegraphist/gunner’s position and it doesn’t look like Wray could have faced forward – also with the gun removed, there would have been space for charts/etc. But one of you may know better.

BTW - A.J. Smithers’ Taranto 1940 is an oddly-styled book. It is written in a breezy style and chock full of references and asides to British history. One would not expect to see mentions of Crécy or Sir Walter Raleigh in a history of the FAA leading up to the battle. And these allusions are only two out of at least one hundred historical asides casually tossed off in paragraphs on every page.

I learned only a handful of things from this book not covered in previous reading:

  • The Swordfish that carried bombs during the attack had their 60 gallon extra fuel tank slung beneath the aircraft. Fortunate for me that Wray’s plane carried a torpedo and there are pictures of the observer position-mounted fuel tank (of which Smithers’ book has yet another photo on p. 54). I’ve never seen an underslung fuel tank photo.

  • The aforementioned ‘no rear gun’

  • An actual picture of Tony Wray

Thanks!

10

Been working on some Swordfish for the FAA GB. Waiting for some parts but maybe the in progress pics can help you visualize it.

I’ll scan some refs tomorrow as I have to go to work tonight but I’ll see what I can show to help you out. Check with Simpilot over at the FAA GB he just did a dandy Stringbag as well and is a swell fellow ! [tup]

11

Several years ago, I was able to take photos of “LS326,” during her first major rebuild. The gunner’s “seat” was a small bucket-type, attached to a diagonal fuselage member, on the starboard side, and at floor level, meaning that the gunner would have sat facing to port, with his “anti-cavorting chain” already attached to the staple in the floor, so that he could stand up, when necessary. There was a curved piece of metal attached to the front edge of the narrow “bridge” between gunner’s and observer’s stations, maybe armour plating of a sort. The gun dropped into a shaped hole on the rear decking, and below it’s mounting, the hole, giving access into the rear fuselage, was covered by a roll-down sheet of plastic (in the 1980s, but, probably, canvas during the war.) Under the screen there appears to be a shelf, and the navigator, I suspect, would have had plenty of room, there, to keep his charts.

Edgar

12

Very helpful … this prompted me to re-look at all the photos in my references. You can look at pictures of Swordfish all day and not notice something because your prejudices are that seats face either forward or backward.

The best photo (taken by Ian Huntley I think) is of the LS 326 rear cockpit in Fairey Swordfish Warpaint Series No. 12 by the ubiquitous W.A.Harrison. See page 30/31 ,photo 4. In this photo, which confirms Edgar’s post above, the seat is rather small and attached to the starboard side. But as you can see from the photo, the seat is sufficiently small that the gunner (observer Wray in my case) can point his feet either to port or diagonally port/aft. It also shows that there are a wealth of instruments facing aft so there is no way the seat could have been repositioned facing forwards without rewiring the cockpit - highly unlikely.

N.b. Small-bottomed sub-lieutenants must have been a requirement for this position.

This helps explain why the photos of gunners in Swordfish (or the front/rear cover illustrations in Swordfish in Action [Squadron/Signal]) show the person oriented in different directions. There was more freedom of movement for the torso to twist than I originally thought.

As color commentary, I re-read Lamb’s To War in a Stringbag, here are some interesting quotes about his observer on the mission:

  • “Grabbing the voice-pipe I [Lamb, the pilot] sang out to Grieve [the observer], <<I’m about to attack [dropping bombs], so try to see if I score any hits>>” p.126.
  • “You [Lamb] were throwing the aircraft about like a madman half the time, and every time I tried to look over the side, the slipstream nearly whipped off my goggles!” p. 127
  • “Their [observer’s] responsibilities ended at the target until it was time to go home again, and then they had to be very cool-headed and accurate, and do difficult sums. While the excitement was at its height all they could do was sit tight and pray.” p. 127-8
13

Sorry for the delay. I work nights. Very long ones some times. But here are the Pics I promised from articles that Ritchie. Sim Pilot sent to me.

and a scan of the 1/32 Trumpeter instructions dealing with the crew area. It is exactly the same as the Tamiya kit but larger.

Sounds like a shameless plug but you should jump into the FAA GB in group builds. Not a prim and proper ruled with an iron fist build but a bunch of modelers that have a fun time and share loads of info and great work and techniques. Definately some of the best fellows I have met.

Hope these help you out holler if you need anything else.

I can’t find any pics of that auxerlery tank used in Taranto. I would be interested in seeing how it was set up as well. Sounds very cramped space wise for the poor remaining crew member.

14

sfcmac – You are so kind. The picture above from Air Power Modelling is quite impressive. The style harkens back to art deco-ish travel ads for the comfort of travel by Zeppelin! It makes the gunner’s position look positively roomy - almost the sitting room at the Ritz. Of course, on patrol in the North Atlantic without a canopy I doubt the gunner was reminded of the Ritz.

Thank you for the invitation to the FAA Group Build. I’m not sure I’m up to the quality levels that FSM members are capable.

I also now realize that ‘Ritchie’ / ‘simpilot’ is the same person who ably documented his 1/72 Swordfish build in this long running series of posts. I’ve studied his pictures many times while being awestruck at the level of competence. Let’s hope that the combination of time, patience, and $ I’ve put in so far will let me come close to his excellence.

I’ve inserted below a montage of all the external fuel tank photos I have found to date. Click on the image to see full size.

Photo credits:

1 - Harrison, W.A. Swordfish Special

2 - ibid

3 - Smithers, A. J. Taranto 1940 Prelude to Pearl Harbor

4 - Harrison, W.A. Fairey Swordfish in Action

15

OK folks – The answer to the original post - serial number at Taranto is now solved (sort of).

I just obtained Ray Sturtivant’s magisterial work The Swordfish Story. In this work, besides recounting dozens of pilot/observer reports of various wartime Swordfish experiences, Sturtivant includes these marvelous resources:

  • A mini-history of every Swordfish - from when it was delivered to where it served and how it ended. Appendix 4, pages 185-236 of small print. This history is by aircraft serial number. Unbelievable!

  • An enumeration with details of every Swordfish lost. Appendix 3

  • An accounting of each plane at Taranto and its serial number, where known

  • Innumerable photos, not heretofore published in the standard modeling booklets. I especially liked the photo of a Swordfish transporting a motorcycle instead of a torpedo. There is also a picture of one of the two Swordfish (L4A) shot down and’raised’ by the Italians.

It is clear that Sturtivant spared no effort in tracking down every Swordfish. In notable Swordfish actions, he has a table inserted into the text with each plane present, crew, number, and serial number. This endeavor could simply not be duplicated and Sturtivant deserves the DFC at least!

Now for the bad news – Sturtivant was only able to trace 4 (with the fifth a guess) of the 21 striking Swordfish down to their serial numbers. None of these were Wray’s plane. And, simply holding this book in your hands convinces you that the trail has gone cold.

In The Attack on Taranto by Lowry, Thomas and Wellham, John, the latter author, who flew E5H at Taranto reproduces his pilot’s log for the preceding week. Over a 9 day period, he flew four (4) different aircraft. I would need to track down the pilot’s log for L4R (Wray’s plane) - something it is clear that Sturtivant attempted but failed. A possible reason for this would be the subsequent heavy damage to the Illustrious which could easily have destroyed the records.

So, for my model, I’m going to comb through the Appendix’s 51 pages trying to identify planes delivered to Squadron 815 and/or the Illustrious before November 1940 and pick one at random not otherwise identified as being present at Taranto.

A final detail - Captain Sutton, an observer in L5K recounts his story on p.57. There is one illuminating modeling fine point -

“As observer, I was in what was normally the air gunner’s position in the rear with the enormous petrol tank in the middle of the aircraft where I would usually have my seat. I was leaning on the petrol tank, with my chin on it, looking over the top through the centre section at Torrens-Spence’s [pilot] head, observing and telling him what to do next. The tank was basically just an aluminium alloy barrel strapped above the observer’s normal seat. There was no self-sealing or anything, and it had a vent pipe on top that sprayed petrol in the observer’s face on take-off. I must say it wasn’t a comfortable place to be positioned.”

So - I’ll need to put some grime ‘wash’ on Wray’s face!

Any idea how I find a 1/72 figure in WW II flight gear that is posable standing up, head high with arms out gripping the sides? All the Swordfish kits come with figures sitting down!

Hopefully my PE interior parts (ACE) will arrive soon - I ordered them from Ukraine and the shipper promises that they are on their way.

16

None of that. Come over and present your papers to the Captain, there’s a need for historical research done as well as yours, and don’t drink his rum. He’s a bit of a sot, but it’s easily a place you could fit right in to. Just tell the Admiral that Bondo and Sarge sent you up the gangway.

17

I will surely third the motion!!! By all means Eric!!! Get your butt over to the FAA GB!!! I have read the posts and replies for this thread and am very intrigued to see it come into being!!! What better place for it to unfold as the GB!!! I would also like to THANK YOU, for all your kind words about my Swordfish build!!! Very Very much appreciated!!![bow] While I was building my Swordfis i found a few books and had a read of them and one was simply called TARANTO by Don Newton an A. Cecil Hampshire. Copyright 1959! I picked it up at a second hand book store. I will have another read of it and see if there is ANY info I can convey to you at all for modelling a Taranto raider!!! I sincerely hope that your ACE PE set doesn’t take six months like mine did!!! Mind you in the long run I got it free of charge for such a long wait, but it was agonizingly LONG!!! Since I had already started the build by the time I found out about this PE set and one from Airwaves available from Hannant’s, I couldn’t use much of the interior. I did manage the seats and belts plus a few other bits though. I sent the remnants to sfcmac for his build.

http://www.hannants.co.uk/

Just type in Swordfish for search after selecting scale and it should come up with whats available. I have ordered stuff from them a few times and they are very good in my opinion.

I found this in my book and will gladly share it with you.

No mention is made of serials though to confirm. Like I said will have another read of this book and see if there is anything else I can relay to you. All the best in this endeavour!!! Looking forward to it!!! Like sfcmac said, If there is anything else I can try and help out with let me know!!![#toast]

Aaron, thank you for your kind words as well!!! I feel the same way about the FAA GB crew!! And you are top rate as well mate!!![#toast]

18

By all means, I shall add my name to the endorsement! Some of the finest lads you will ever find hang out over there. Looking forward to seeing you there. [^]

19

Simpilot34 –

Interesting quotations from the book. Thanks for taking the time to find the passage and insert into the forum. I’m a little dubious of the dialog (poetic license by the author).

As for the 1/72 PE sets; I am aware of three versions:

  • Airwaves (for the Airfix kit). I have this. Got mine from Aviation Megastore in the Netherlands. I bought a second one from Roll Models in case I messed up. Hannants was out-of-stock when I looked but may be different now.

  • Cooperativa (Frog clone) Swordfish kit - comes with a small PE part set (which I also have). I got mine from Frontline Hobbies in Sydney. The item is still available on their web site. Falcon HK also has a Cooperativa.

  • ACE (for the Frog and Frog clone kits) - shipped 17 July 2009 from Ukraine. Dealer is Models UA. He (Ivan) has one still available. Moduni lists this item but it has been marked as ‘delivery expected in 1-2 weeks’ for the last 2 months now.

When I get a few moments I’ll get my act together re: FAA Group Build.

I do have two other questions though:

Q1 - Torpedo color: Based on the many pictures I have seen, it would appear that the brightly-colored torpedo (warhead end) was used only for training missions where, I suppose, tracking and finding the training torpedo was important so color mattered - or, perhaps, as a human factors issue to distinguish at a glance fake from live torpedoes.

For live torpedoes on actual missions (1940), at best (from photos/line drawings), the warhead end was a darker gray (than the rest of the torpedo) or possibly black. Again, no reason to tip off the enemy with some brightly-colored object in the water. In many cases, the torpedo was monochromatic. I don’t have any written proof of this.

I’d be interested in whether your research indicated otherwise.

Q2 - Those little windows that the pilot could look through below and to the sides of the plane. These windows are irregularly shaped polygons. The Frog model outlines their location. The Airfix and Revell models omit entirely.

Most photos of Swordfish don’t appear to show these windows as windows, instead they seem to be covered/dark. But, in the photos, the windows are in a position that is easily obscured by the wings/struts. Also, the interior of the plane would be dark so a photo from the outside might not reveal the polygon to be a window, just a dark spot. So, hard-to-tell from wartime photos.

I did find this photo from a restored Swordfish which unambiguously shows the windows. I can’t quite figure out whether the Taranto plane would have had these windows exposed or covered. The line drawings (side-view) in Sturtivant’s The Swordfish Story consistently show the window for all Mk I’s. Same with the line drawing in WarPaint No. 12 (drawing by Ian Huntley). Although I’m not in an airborne Swordfish, the windows are so small that the pilot’s field of view can’t have been too great - and at night their efficacy would be limited.

My default position is to cut out the Frog fuselage where the windows are marked and insert some scratch built clear styrene. I’m curious whether you (or anyone) can shed some light (so-to-speak) on these windows.

Thanks!

20

The windows were to enable the pilot to judge his height, in daylight, for torpedo dropping. At night it was normally the observer’s task to hang over the side, watch the height, and communicate it to the pilot (often by clouting him on the shoulder.) With an intervening fuel tank, it must have been “interesting.”

Edgar