Fleet Air Arm Swordfish serial number - Raid on Taranto 1940

Ahhh, the same two I dealt with for my ACE PE set as well! I told Modloony that they shouldn’t put up false info on products they don’t have! Just put ‘out of stock’ up instead! I mean how hard is it? Ivan said he sent mine and don’t know where it got off to. He gave me a tracking number but had no idea how to use it. Anyway, I kept on harrassing him, ended up refunding my money and eventually got it free of charge for waiting nearly six months!!! So I say good luck on getting them. Once you do though, they are very nice and have the tail feathers and props for the fish, which were the main things I wanted.

As for the color of the fish, well, I honestly took a bit of artistic license and used a pic of one of the restored Swordfish carrying a fish with a red nose and liked the way it looked more or less. Added a bit of color to the build![:D] That’s the only reason it’s red. Plus I couldn’t find any confirmation of the colors of the noses of the fish, I did look, but came up empty.

The mystery of Tony Wray’s serial number takes an interesting twist. New, conflicting evidence emerges.

I just received my Aeromaster Fleet Air Arm Pt I decal set (Models-For-Sale in UK). These include decals and paint scheme for the Taranto raid’s leader aircraft (4A - Lt Cmdr Williamson).

You’ll note that the researchers Peter Freeman and Mike Starmer say that the Sky Grey lower surfaces were repainted matt black for the raid on Taranto. This meant that the serial number would have been painted over as they indicate in their rendition. So, it doesn’t matter what Wray’s serial number was for the model kit as it won’t appear! Their rendition also suggests that the underside of the upper wing is also matt black painting over the large aircraft identifier 4A (one less decal for me to fabricate).

However, there is contradictory evidence - the drawing (Don Greer) on the cover of Fairey Swordfish in action by W.A. Harrison. In this drawing, of Wellham’s aircraft 5H, the sky grey color is present as is the serial number. There is nothing in the text to substantiate this depiction.

Anyone have anything to elaborate on the paint scheme for Taranto Swordfish? My research to date can’t corroborate Aeromaster (not that I doubt them, just like to see a confirming source - especially as Harrison went to market with a different picture).

Aside #1 - It struck me that since I have a Frog-Eastern Express-Cooperativa threesome of Swordfish, I could do Wray’s plane on three of four different documented events - Taranto, a mine-laying raid on Tobruk October 22, 1940, a bombing attack on Benghazi (Sepember 16 1940), and an attack on Italian destroyers (torpedo) October 12, 1940. So, I can scratch build a 1/72 aerial mine and 1/72 250 lb bombs (yippee).

Aside #2 - I sure wish my ACE PE set for the Frog Swordfish would arrive. Amazingly enough (as it was shipped from Ukraine), USPS Package tracking has got it as far as NYC on July 23. So any day now.

I knew they added black for some ops but I have never seen one at represented at Taranto like that! Very cool!

Ah - the paint scheme – I don’t know what to trust anymore. Here’s why:

Just got my copy of Air Power Modeling Vol 1 - Periscopio Publications - a modeling 'zine written primarily (I think) by Greek hobbyists. The issue featured a Tamiya 1/48 Swordfish build but also included paint schemes and interior renditions (some reproduced in previous posts by simpilot34).

The issue also had eight (8) side views of different Swordfish Mk I’s.

So, take a look at this image - the text says this was a Swordfish that took part in the Taranto raid. Well, armed with my trusty Sturtivant The Swordfish Story, I looked up the serial number P4210. Sturtivant doesn’t list P4210 as a Taranto plane (but remember, he couldn’t identify 16 of the 21 planes in the raid. However, he does list in Appendix 4 that

  • P4210 started the war with 771 Squadron,

  • on July 25, 1940, went into the Royal Navy Repair Yard at Donibristle (Scotland)

  • the next record of the plane is April 4, 1941 when it went from Ringway (an RAF base and Fairey manufacturing center (although not of Swordfish) back to Donibristle

HMS Illustrious had already sailed for Bermuda with its aircraft at the end of June 1940. From Bermuda it sailed to Gibraltar and then joined the Mediterranean Fleet. So, I don’t see how this plane could have been at Taranto.

If you couple that deduction with the absence of the plane’s number on the tail (which we know was present from this photo of L4A raised by the Italians after the raid, and the side view drawing not showing an external fuel tank - which all the planes had, then this piece of paint scheme evidence is inconclusive - not helping to resolve the black vs sky grey fuselage question raised by the Aeromaster decal research team.

Next step on the research trail:

  • “With Naval Wings” by John Wellham - another participant in the Taranto Raid with his wartime story
  • “The Attack on Taranto” by Brian B. Schofield - hopefully a more scholarly account of the raid than the Smithers and Lowry/Wellham books

I also found someone who has Sturtivant’s Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939-1945 which has an enumeration of 815 Squadron’s planes.

Lastly, consider this image:. This art by Robert Taylor is a limited edition print, signed by Charles Lamb - an actual participant in the raid. You can tell from the print that the lower fuselage is not black as in the Aeromaster decal research (my previous post). The print does show the external fuel tank (good) although the oil cooler looks suspiciously like a Mk II oil cooler which wouldn’t have been present

If you haven’t found the answer yet, it’s L9743.

Reference Sturdivant “Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 - 1945” page 78.

L9743 821 Sqn CA5C") 10.40 - 11.40; Attacked at 50-200ft by Do2IS 0816 30m E of Fair Isle, retd Hatston safely 22.10.40; 815 Sqa (‘L4R’) 2.41; FL in desert during nighl navex. Cat W 23.5.41 (S/L WR NowcU ft LA SL Booscy unhurt)

Beat me to it, FleetAirArm. I won’t have to ask my mate who has a copy of the book/FAA bible. Nicely done.

thanks kindly!

FleetAirArm and Antipodean Andy:

I must admit I was surprised to see an answer so many months after the original posting. The section you cited is also included in Sturtivant’s The Swordfish Story as Appendix 4 ( I have this book and a wonderful book it is). Had I a full-text search version of this book, I could have looked for L4R with a few key strokes but the mind numbing scanning of all the pages caused me to miss this.

There’s still a bit of doubt in my mind as Sturtivant’s enumeration of aircraft serial numbers for Taranto (p. 58) has a clear blank for L4R which makes me think that as of Nov 11, 1940, there was no positive evidence of exactly what plane was flown by Macauley/Wray. If we break down the entry extracted by FleetAirArm from Sturtivant:

  • Deld 24 MU Ternhill 31.3.38; [Delivered to 24 Maintenance Unit on March 31, 1938. This would make this a Mk I. plane which would be correct for Taranto
  • To RN charge 24.5.39 [No additional confirmation here]
  • 821 Sqn Ark Royal (‘A5C’) 10.40-11.40; [Hmm… Taranto was 11.11.40 and 821 Squadron was not part of Taranto. Ark Royal returned from a refit to Gibraltar on 11.6.40 and this plane would have had to have been transferred to Illustrious almost immediately. There’s no mention in any of the Taranto books I read of such a transfer – the squadrons were from Eagle and Illustrious. But, crew and planes are separate items. So…possible that plane was at Taranto.
  • Attacked at 50-200 ft by Do 215 30m E if Fair Isle, retd Hatston safely 22.10.40 [This event would have occurred prior to Taranto while Ark Royal was refitting in Great Britain after the Force H Dakar operation. Hatston is near Scapa Flow…No additional confirmation here]
  • 815 Sqn (L4R) 2.41 [This could be taken as arriving as a replacement aircraft for 815 Sqn which had seen heavy losses in Stuka raids in January 1941…or, it could be taken as some confirmation document placing the aircraft with 815 Sqn in February 1941 without knowing where it was in the prior three months]

Once again, I thank FleetAirArm and Antipodean Andy for their time and willingness to help here. I envy their possession of the Sturtivant comprehensive book which is a terrific resource for FAA planes of all types.

Glad to be of help. Other items of info you might be interested in from the Sturdivant book… .

You’re correct that it was a Mark I.

It appears that Lt. Macauley did not survive the war, being killed along with three others in a training accident in serial # W5850 in June 1942.

Dear Copredy

Whilst browsing the internet I came across your post about Tony Wray. He was my uncle, the eldest brother of my mother, Mrs Patrica Pern. She’s is now 88 years old and lives in Sussex. Tony and his exploits, coupled with his early death on the Illustrious are, as you can imagine part of our childhood memories.

I’m sure that my mother would be delighted to hear from you and if you’d like to get in touch with her please let me know. I can be contacted at this email address

jeremy.pern@wanadoo.fr

I look forward to your reply

Yours

jeremy

A follow-up on Tony Wray’s plane after some additional information came my way.

What camouflage color scheme was used for Wray’s plane L4R? When building the model, the references I had were contradictory:

Warpaint Series No. 12. W.A. Harrison had a color drawing of 5L (819 squadron - served on Illustrious but 5L wasn’t one of the mission craft) showing:

  • Extra Dark Sea Gray / Dark Slate Gray upper mainplane upper surfaces; Sky Grey undersides and lower fuselage;

Fairey Swordfish in Action. W.A. Harrison had a cover drawing of 5H (824 squadron - ex Eagle, served on Illustrious and was a mission craft) showing:

  • Extra Dark Sea Gray / Dark Slate Gray upper mainplane upper surfaces; Sky undersides and lower fuselage. Admittedly, the artwork doesn’t have the same color values as used in Warpaint Series No 12.

Air Power Modelling Vol I. Richard Caruana (artist) had a color drawing of 5L but with a different serial number (P4210) than Warpaint Series No. 12’s 5L (P4221). Although the caption says this plane was at Taranto, P4210 was definitely not per Sturtivant’s The Swordfish Story (the definitive work). Anyway, assuming the serial number is in error, this color drawing shows:

  • Dark Slate Grey/Dark Sea Gray upper mainplane upper surfaces; Sky undersides and lower fuselage.

Air Power Modelling Vol I. Richard Caruana (artist) had a color drawing of 4H (815 Squadron), serial K8257. This plane was at Taranto except the serial number was not - and it is not even listed in Sturtivant. Color scheme was same as 5L/P4210 above

and lastly:

AeroMaster Fleet Air Arm Pt I shows4A (815 Squadron) with:

  • Extra Dark Sea Gray / Dark Slate Gray upper mainplane upper surfaces and matt black painted over Sky Grey lower surfaces and lower half of fuselage

None of the drawings illustrated the lower mainplane upper surfaces. Depending on date, this would be either the same as the upper mainplane (post 26 Sep 1940) or Dark Sea Gray/Light Slate Gray (pre 26 Sep 1940)

So, what course of action to take? The upper surfaces were fairly clear but lower surfaces of Taranto planes could have had three different lower surfaces/lower fuselage colors based on the above.

Fortunately, I happened upon the definitive resource:

Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings Atlantic and Mediterranean Theatres 1937-1941. Stuart Lloyd. 2008

This is a beautifully illustrated volume with color line drawings by Richard Caruana and a wealth of photos (some of remarkable coffee table quality) of Swordfish, Walrus, Skua, Roc, Martlet, Sea Gladiator, and Fulmar.

Lloyd goes through each of many directives from the Admiralty on camouflage schemes and then analyzes black and white photographs to determine the likely color represented in the printed tones based on understanding of how 1940s film reacted to UV light.

So, here is what I learned:

  1. Wray’s Squadron (815) was painted differently than Illustrious’ other Squadron (819). So much for thinking that squadrons of the same marque would be painted the same on the same carrier (!)
  2. On p.77 Lloyd states that when embarked on Illustrious, 815 Squadron was painted in Scheme S.1.E. – Extra dark sea gray/dark slate grey upper wing; light slate gray / dark sea gray on lower wing, sky grey lower surfaces/fuselage sky gray overpainted with black. However, based on photo evidence, Caruana does his line drawing with extra dark sea gray/dark slate gray extending all the way down the fuselage sides and black on wing undersides and presumably fuselage underside.
  3. Admiralty order 1719 26 Sep 1940 which defined the camouflage scheme for FAA aircraft allows for under surfaces to be matt black for operational requirements. Lloyd states this is the first written confirmation that 815 Squadron had black undersides.
  4. On p. 114, Lloyd states definitively that 815 Squadron were painted with black undersides and fuselage sides and that this scheme was carried forward to Taranto. This contradicts the Caruana drawing which did not have black on the fuselage sides. A photo caption repeats this for a Swordfish on Illustrious but the photo seems to support Caruana’s drawing
  5. On p. 116 and enlarged on back cover, there is a fairly clear photo of two 815 Squadron planes on Illustrious in October 1940 where Lloyd states “…dark under-surfaces from weathered distemper applied to fuselage and under-surfaces…” The demarcation between upper fuselage camouflage and lower fuselage dark is a straight line; not wavy.

Conclusion:

The Aeromaster line drawing is perhaps closest to the photo taken closest to 11 November 1940 although their black is too black given the photo evidence. The Caruana line drawing of 815 Squadron was done for a August 1940 photo and seems to have been superseded by repainting two months later.

Lloyd also goes into great detail on roundels and fin flashes but that’s a different story than this one here.

Note: As the photos and line drawings are all copyrighted material, I’m reluctant to post them here. But for anyone wanting to do an 815 Squadron plane at Taranto, you can short circuit your research and just use Lloyd’s book. For that matter, any FAA plane pre 1941 - go for Lloyd’s book.

Sorry to revive an old thread but wonder if you finished your build?

Also, I have volunteered to do a Taranto version for a GB and am looking for inspiration so any new info you acquired is greatly appreciated.

Phil –

Well, the Frog Swordfish is almost completed with (only) the complex 1/72 tail rigging left to be done. I decided to do a diorama base of an Illustrious deck fragment complete with torpedo trolley and a few deck crew in ‘action’ poses. This has slowed things down quite a bit.

As for your Taranto GB, I wish you all the best. I think I have read/own every book on Taranto (in English) plus the two memoirs of Swordfish pilots who were at Taranto. I have quite a few books on the Swordfish as well.

As for the serial number, I decided on P4064. This was built in 1939 and the only thing else known about it was that it was written off April 5, 1941 as part of 815 Sqn. Thus, it was plausibly at Taranto and the lack of any other data meant that it wasn’t confirmed somewhere else at the same time. This wouldn’t stand up in court but was good enough for me.

Perhaps you should do a Maryland, one of the planes that did recon on Taranto before and after. Of course, no paeans were ever written about the Maryland nor is it likely to appear in any WW II commemorative flyovers.

If I ever finish this project, I’m moving onto the 1/400 HMS Illustrious from Heller.

Eric,

Thanks for the data. It is a Swordfish GB and I have always wanted to do a Taranto bird and a Bismark one. Really interested in one of the planes with the black undersides. Got to find some additional markings for one of these.

A dio sounds good. Hope you get it done.

Phil – I highly recommend Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fleet-Air-Camouflage-Markings-Mediterranean/dp/1905414080 for details on the dark undersides used by 815 Sqn

"Note: As the photos and line drawings are all copyrighted material, I’m reluctant to post them here. But for anyone wanting to do an 815 Squadron plane at Taranto, you can short circuit your research and just use Lloyd’s book. For that matter, any FAA plane pre 1941 - go for Lloyd’s book. "

I really wish you would reconsider and post the pics. Under the current law it is legal to post the pics for informational or educational purposes, which is what we would be doing with them. I am doing a RoG 72nd Swordfish and have been lacking in good refs for the Taranto Raid…

Another source for 815 Sqn at Taranto is the following decal sheet – Aeromaster Fleet Air Arm Pt I decal set.

As for Lloyd’s book – the author went to a lot of trouble to research Fleet Air Arm camouflage and produced the definitive work. In my opinion, he deserves support through purchase of his book (and I don’t know him at all so I have no vested business or personal interest). There are two reasonably priced copies here

Note the review here.

Swordfish is completed. Full story can be found here in three successive posts:

1 - /forums/p/75307/1491625.aspx#1491625
2 - /forums/p/75307/1491840.aspx#1491840
3 - /forums/p/75307/1492604.aspx#1492604