Now while I prob`ly would enjoy a nice cold tube of tonsil varnish, Eddies creations deserve a lot more credit than just this forum, and its sounds more interesting than chopping a Airfix 109F into a 109TL.
My son has gone on holiday so for a while I`m limited to using my scanner so please bear with me.
Ive been trying to build a 109Z using two Airfix Fs and have reached a deadlock due to the undercart arrangement. As the Airfix kit has the wings seperate to the underside of the fuselage, I am either going to have to build a wing center section master for vacforming containing both undercart positions that will mate up with two seriously butcherd fuselages and wing roots or look into another source for the basic kit with a one piece lower wing. Either the Hobbycraft (if I really have to) or Hasegawa (if I can bring myself to cut up)
So as not to waste the bits of plastic that I have, I have decided to build a jet engined 109. Not the twin engine but with a single Ju 004 under the fuselage.
The original 109TL concept was an attempt to get yet more out of the basic design but as the 262 was showing great results the idea was dropped and I don`t beleive it progressed beyond the drawing board.
I have built this before in 1:72 from a Airfix 109G-6 and now that I have scaled up my 109 collection I want one. I started of by drawing around the basic kit moulding and added and subtracted bits to fit. I wanted swept wings and a butterfly tail on this one and considedrd a new canopy somthing like a blown Spitfire or Mustang center section but realised that theres not much left that looks like a 109 so have settled on either a standard canopy or better still a Erla one.
So basic ideas planned out it time to get Millering and I`ll keep you posted as I go.
Well I`ve started cutting plastic a began with the wings. (made a change from the cockpit).
To sweep back the wings I laid the parts on the cutting mat and lined up the trailing edge on a horizontal line and edged the front of the wing onto a vertical. Marked top and bottom, joined the dots with a flexible straight edge and cut away the resulting wedge. This gave a slant to the flap and aileron edges so these were simply taken from the wing edge and cut at a right angle to the hinge line to be removed later. These wings were chosen as I had already removed the slats for my 109G-12 build.
The fuselages had the tails removed and the lower cowling cut away from just before the wing leadind edge. Originaly I intended to install an engine from a Dragon 262 kit but I have five 262s to build and only 1 engine so this has been saved for these. Instead I used the front and rear mouldings from aforesaid Dragon spares and cut a piece of tube of the right diameter and with these glued together cut the underside of the fuselage to accept this. Later I will remove a wedge at the rear of the engine cutout to take another piece of tube to replicate a concaveblast/exhaust` area like on the experimental Yak that was fitted with a jet.
As I intend to finish this model with a closed canopy the interior was only painted as is with out to much detaialing with the wiring etc just painted on.
Im still considering wether to build with an open gun bay and have some MK108s from a dragon kit. The rudders are also from a dragon model with just the fin to create.
Looking at my bits box I need some under cart legs and suitable wheels (also used on the G-12) and a Erla canopy and these may have to come out of an unopened kit and a Squadron canopy. But if I make my Tamiya E into a 109W with floats that problem might be solved.
I do not know if you are aware of it or not but your subject title is little misleading. In the states one of the more popular beers is named Miller. Its Miller Time is there slogan. So basicly you are inviting everone to have a beer! I will see you after work. HA HA HA!
That’s great garyallum, your running a regular chop shop over there. I’ve never seen that single jet 109 idea. I’ve always seen the more 262 looking 109TL with the engine on each like this one
I think your correct, I don’t think any jet version 109 left the drawing board. Keep us up to date on this. I just ordered a new 109 ID and field mod manual. It’s supposed to have every varient in service, prototype and planed. At 55 bucks it better be good. If I find a better 109Z undercarrage pic I will pass it along.
It looks like you’re off to a good start on an interesting concept, I know you’ll have a ball doing it! [tup] Nice sketches too… you’re one after my own heart! [:)] Look forward to seeing your progress.
You’re right, Eddie does a [bow] of a job making models look like the ones we see in our dreams sometime! I always thought he should do a website and market them thangs to the world! [:)]
Truth be told, Frank is the main inspiration for me to REALLY step out and do my KC-135/B-17. Take a look a Frank’s Rutan B-17 and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Without Frank, there would be no “Miller Time” as we know it.[#toast]
Gary! WOW!! That is some great looking work you’ve got going there. Excellent detail. Looking forward to seeing more of your work.[:D][8D]
Firstly thanks for all your kind words, and heres the answers to a few comments.
Soulcrusher- Sorry Bud, Im afraid I got Pabst & Schlitzd once to often and the drinks out.
`less of course your buying.
Pheonix- This is an ad from Unicraft of the general feel I`m trying to get on this one.
Well we plod along and Ive got a profile I like on the nose. Decided against a gun bay as this really is just supposed to be a break from all the other long term projects Ive got on the go. Whoever said “If twere done, twere best done quickly” never made models.
Looks a bit messy here due to the fact Ive used the bottle of glue that I normally use to apply greenstuff. But once covered in Milliput should be ok. And just for the hell of it I tacked one of the wings on just to see what it looks like and so far Im quite chuffed. Not bad for a kit that cost £5:00 including postage on Ebah and a few spares.
Well lets get started SlappingSandingSealingEtcEtc
Well Gary an imagination is a wonderfull thing. This build is looking like something that could have really fought in WWII. If Willie had started out with the 109 as a base for his first jet fighter I bet it would have looked like what you are creating there. Well I do not drink much either but if I ever make it over to your side of the pond I promise I’ll buy!
Its a deal. Ive printed this out and its in a safe place so I may hold you to it.[#welcome] [party] [#toast]
Hi Eddie,
Took your advice and checked out www.gunsagogo.org and I would like to recomend this site to any one as source of “Gosh[yeah]Wow[wow]” factor. The rebuild of the Aurora Chinook is awesome. That Frank is sure one hell of a modeler. As to his Rutaan 17, I had seen it before and refound it on Swannys site. As for your last post on the P.40, take the praise for what it is. Youve earned it![BG]
PART FOUR (glue to part three while holding parts D, E, & A1 and assemble to stage 5)
Well I`ve fought the good fight and got sick and tired of SOSO (slap on-sand off) and have progressed thus far:-
I particultly like the last pic` reminds me of either Munch “The Scream” or Burt Kwok in the Pink Panther. Have blutacked on the tailplanes/droptanks here and added a canopy and suddenly
its a Messerscmitt again.The rudder & droptanks are from the Dragon Mistel kit I still have to finish (just the groundcrew to do) and have sourced the main undercart from here also. As the tyres are those orrible rubber rings I`m borrowing the late G tyres and Erla canopy from an Academy 109G-14. Well at least it keeps all these bits “in house” as it were all being Messerschmitt pieces.
Just had a quicklook on preview and it looks a mess with 3 colours of plastic, milliput and greenstuff. But Im over the hump with the soso now its on to polishing, minor filling and priming so hopefully by Monday/ Tues Ill be spraying on the first coat of metal. This is why I was asking about salt chipping on the Forum. (See there is a method in my madness.)
Just to finish is a few pic`s of the 109G-12 as some of the Airfix parts went into this kit. About another 3 days on this should see it finally done. I think this was supposed to be an out of the box about 2-3 years ago?
Very happy with the figures on this one. Apart from the pilot in the black leathers, the rest were converted from Tamiya`s Infantry on manouvers.
Hay garyallum I talked to the 2 “strange build” luftwaffe guys in out club today. both said to there knowledge the undercarrage for the 109Z should be the same as a standered F-4/6 varient. No change in tires, gears or method of retraction. No pics exist and very little info. It had 4 wing radiators but only the 2 otter ones were operational(could open and cloes). The wings including the center wing section were each fitted with a gun, Mounted like gallands special F. This means you will have to add shell ejectors wings. They did not know for sure if the hood mouned guns were retained or not. But it did have the cannon mounted to both engins. most likely the engines were not counter rotating. From what info can be had it is thought that the handling would have been compairable to the Bf110. good firepower but poor rate of roll and turn. climb rate most likely would have improved. Off topic, and I don’t know if you already had this info but thought I’t might be helpfull. One of the guys did build one but it was about 10 to 12 years ago. They both knew there were line drawing for it , but like me can’t remember where.
Nice to hear from you again. What an odd discription “strange build luftwaffe guys”. I magine these two old but debonair pensioners with a distinct accent, a pronounced limp (L.I.M.P pronounced limp) waving small black cheroots around talking about that Paris leave in 1940, but both with humped backs.
As for the 109Z all the above is news to me and would certainly make for an easy build, but all the info I have found so far is like the following:-
Airfix Magazine coversion article July 72
Cutting Edge 1:48 conversion
Airmodel 1:72 kit
Internet
Also of your discription why have 4 under wing radiators if only the outer two are fully functional?. Like you say, in the main these were two standard airframes joined together with a new centre section and if the normal variant needed the two then I would presume that any adaption would need the same. I don`t know if I have mentioned this before but I understand that the reason for the undercarrige shift was due to a new keel fitted to the fuselage so as to reduce width. I personaly think that if this mod were to go operational, the middle two legs would have disapeared anyway.
Back to the TL. I think that modelling brings out my feminine side in regards to the relationship that women have with furniture and movement. After posting the last input I started to read a book which just mentioned early British work on Infra-red gunsights, 5 minute later and 1/2 an hour after posting Im Dremeling out groves for an infra red lamp and heavier firepower. Now instead of a mainly silver aircraft flying high over Germany diving between boxes of B17s and dodging the Shoulddangles, I have a dark loner looking for Lancaster prizes in the bomber streams at night. Now I have to build an IF gunsight!.
Well that bout of fillnsand is over at last. My own fault, faffying around with weapons changes, and at my age. Next time I`m going to make a firm and final decision and stick to it no matter what,… maybe.
Couldn`t decide on a scheme for this one. Considerd a variation of this
but ended up with this.
Scribble and stripes, does that go? or is it like tartan and spots, not fashion statement or combination you want to be seen in?
Not much feedback here since the initial posts. Either your bored or indifferent or perhaps just don`t like it. Let me know, as all imput is gratefully accepted and recieved
I really like that late war what if camo on the TL, I’m going to have to take notes for when I build my me262 mistel. It came together nicely, when you can frankenstein [:D] pieces together like that and make the end result look as seamless as tamiya kit, that’s where you seperate the men from the boys. BTW what do you use as a filler?
The saucer or “UFO” fighter is very interesting piece. you did a good job on that. It looks like you used a ho/go 229 in there somewhere. I have heard that the luftwaffe was developing saucer shaped aircraft at the end. The story is they were tested here at wright field Ohio. I have never found any proof of this or even one going to prototype. The only thing I have seen were a few concept drawing. horton brothers were thought to be the designers of those around the same time as the Go 229 and such.
I, for one, have been taking notes. I am really enjoying your work and I am sure that if you posted this over at whatifmodelers.com, you would have a legion of fans after they see this. I’m going to link this thread to there. Don’t be surprised if you get some more invites to come by. I think your saucer will be a hit as well. Keep up the good work!
Gary, I like the camo job you did, except for the RLM 02 (Maybe???) stripes. They don’t seem to go with the overall look too well. I’ve been playing IL-2 1946 and aparently the Soviets had something like this in their stable. It was a jet converted from a Yak. Good job on this one!
