OK, I was trolling thru the Life Magazine online archives looking for something (in your best Ronnie Reagan voice-‘there you go again…’ [;)]) when I cane aross these lovely color photos taken in the South West Pacific Theater. Now the C-47s are obviously in what we modelers have come to know for Olive Drab and Neutral Gray
As are this B-24 & B-25
but then I found this Lockheed with an obviously lighter gray lower surface, and conversely fresher, less faded OD uppers. Could this be the “Sky Gray” mentioned by some sources (particularly by Dana Bell) that was used on USAAF aircraft in 1942?
I think that I might wade into this mess. After doing a lot of reading I realized that most of us in the Modeling community have been steered wrong. The kit manufacturers routinely tell us that MM 34087 is to be used for the Olive Drab. But that’s not correct. Now for what is correct… that’s tricky. It depends on when the plane was built ( early War or mid to late War ) and some other factors. I managed to get a variety of the Testors MM paints, including the Faded OD, OD ( ANA 613 ), and Green Drab FS 34086. At some point all of these could be possibilities on WWII aircraft. The AMT / Ertl A-20 J kit calls for Dark Olive Drab #41… and they call it FS34086. The regular FS 34087 is supposedly correct for some Vietnam era aircraft… so I’ve been told, but otherwise too yellowish for the WWII Birds. ( except for some possible fading situations that might get it to be close ). Now for extra credit… please check out this website www.ipmsstockholm.org and look for their articles on Interior colors. It was so good that I had to print it off and put it in a 3 ring binder for frequent reference. There are some interesting twists on the old standard assumptions for USAAC Interior colors. Now for the last tid bit… the Cockpit Interior Green ( FS 34151 ) that Testors makes might be a little too yellow greenish. So I am adding just a drop of blue to the paint to get it closer to the Interior Green color. I think that the old Polyscale 34151 has it really close. Please don’t tar and feather me, I’m just trying to get things as close to what was originally made as possible. Bob
Checkmate- I agree very much so. As many ways as OD 41 could fade and has been shown to do so, on the A-20 photo it is indeed a good match for that. More Grayish and Greenish than brown
Bob, yes there are different shades of OD in use in WWII. OD 41 & ANA 319 are not the same shade, and OD #9 the color used by the Army ground forces was different again, but closer to the ANA/319 shade. And all three are not FS shade # 34087.
John, I am fairly certain that the last photo is indeed an A-20 and not a B-25. Compare the narrow cockpit and nose bubble, as well as the sliding windows for the pilot, and the nose gear doors
Thanks for the tutorial on OD and nuetral grey. It will come in handy for references. That said, I would point out that the photo in question is a B-25, not an A-20. The A-20 had 1 pilot and no co-pilot. The photo shows a larger cockpit, and the escape hatch removed. The A-20 had no escape hatch in the canopy. The greenhouse nose on the A-20 was configured totally differently than the photo and had no escape hatch such as the one missing in the photo. And the photo shows 1 nose gear door, the A-20 had 2. Also the pilots sliding window is a mirror image of the co-pilots sliding window. Thanks again for the photos.
I don’t think so. I think the angle of the photos tends to hide the verticle frame. Maybe it just disappears in the sun. All I can say is that I have never seen a B-25 without a vertical framework at the front of the windscreen. The photos you posted show that, depending on time on the airframe, any shade is correct. If its new, its really green. If its been used extensively, not so much. If its the end of the war, its FUBARed, and anything goes.
Based on those last photos there seems to be quite a variety of patterns for the borderline between the Neutral Grey and the Olive Drab. The Nose Art is pretty cool as well. Thanks for sharing the photos.
Stik, here is a view of a B-25C windscreen from the maintenance manual. Could be a D. I think the additional framing happened on the B-25G, but it could have happened in later D production, I am not sure. When the cannon was installed aromor was added to the pilot’s side also, and half of the transparency on the left corner was replaced with metal.
This falls under the same category as trying to determine which german color is “correct”. The lighting, film exposure and developing, weathering and paint application method have too many variables to pinpoint a “correct” shade. I agree that some model paints seem to be way off but best we can do is approximate the shade in question.
To checkmakeking02… Dittos… I also enjoy and profit from discussions on color. Accurate color rendition makes our Models look " Real "… if you know what I mean. This area seems to be routinely evolving as additional information comes to light. So, I am more than willing to shift things around as more info becomes available. Since I’m an ex Navy Nuke, I’m always digging for more info. You know what they always say… " You can take the Nuke out of the Plant, but you can’t take the Plant out of the Nuke ". I am really enjoying all the photos on this thread… Kudos to all who have posted them. Later, Bob
What I can say is that no olive drab or neutral grey is correct once it is painted on an aircraft. Even the ones in the cans from different paint companies are not the same. The only correct colors are the ones on the color chips
I say that there are way to many variables to consider. I get pretty close on my builds, not really looking for exact color matches. If I spent too much time worrying about the exact shade of OD I’d never get a kit done. Plus, with as many manufacturers as there are now producing as many shades as they are, you can mix and match within one build and have it be fairly correct. Battle damage was fixed and repainted in a hurry with what was on hand to get them back in the air. That of meant use of english paint colors, not to mention fresh paint on old paint.
You’re welcome. My intent on posting these photos was not to get in a urinary contest about B-25 or A-20, or about OD and NG fading, etc, but about that other gray as shown on the Lockheed. It is obviously way different than the Neutral Gray shown on all the other aircraft. Could that be the “Sky Gray” referred to by Dana Bell in his WWII USAAF color research articles? I hope that these photos do come in handy to anyone here down the road somewhere.
