Wooden Ship Kits?

Modeling Subjects Ships
1

Hello all-

So, looking to the future, and I’m wondering if I should consider getting my feet wet in the area of wooden kits? What are the popular views on wooden kits? Any advice?

I’ve read about Jtilley’s contempt of the HECEPOB kits. Much of his disdain seems to stem from the commonly-found inaccuracies of these kits, and he has said that while they may be of quality, they are designed by those who know little or nothing of how a real ship works (totally paraphrased)…

Those who are familiar with my (limited) experiences building model ships, might know that I care little for authenticity…my current build of the Black Swan will testify to this (the encapsulated mast-capstan remains!)…

So my main question is: Are there good wooden kits out there, HECEPOB or otherwise, that are somewhat budget-friendly, and fun to build? Or are they mostly a pain in the butt? Would I need special tools/skills to even think about trying one? Any specific brands or types that are recommended?

I’ve been looking at some Mamoli kits, and would most likely go for a cheap, smaller one with simple rigging.

Any insight into the realm of wooden kits?

Thanks again!

David

2

I have built both solid hull and plank-on-bulkhead kits. There are good ones out there but do your research first about the ship that interests you. There are also some horrible kits.

Many people argue that you should start with a simple kit and work up to more complex ships. I disagree; in my opinion you should start with a ship that captures your imagination and learn the skills while you work. You are far more likely to complete that ship instead of a simpler one that you are bored with.

I love the Caldercraft/JoTiKa kits in the Nelson’s Navy line. They are quite accurate meaning they actually depict the real ship, and they are easier to build. And, you can find ships ranging in price from the $200’s on up. Model Shipways kits are also quite nice, as are Bluejacket’s. I have Corel’s HMS Bellona, which is okay, and am working on Constructo’s HMS Pandora (which is not so okay). Unfortunately, the building materials of most companies is less than adequate, particularly with their use of plywood that tends to delaminate when you use it.

I love building these ships, and have developed skills and techniques that help get around some of the errors of the HECEPOB companies. Therefore, I recommend that you try it if you are interested.

Bill

3

For getting your feet wet with wooden ship models, it is hard to beat the Midwest kits. These are smaller craft, largest two masts. But the instructions are super good, and virtually all the wood is precut. No tricky measuring for tapering planks and fairing lines. Start with something simple. The Midwest kits build into very nice looking boats/ships. Most of the models are hard-chined vessels with simplified planking, and the planking is die-cut.

Keep in mind that the imported kits are much more difficult. Planking is not an easy skill to acquire, and do not choose a kit that requires too much rigging- stay with one or at the most two masts. There are two daunting jobs in building a plank on bulkhead sailing vessel- the planking and the rigging. Either task is daunting to a novice, and these tasks lead many to abandon projects. I have seen estimates that the majority of such kits are never finished.

While there are not many solid hull sailing ships left, if you can find one this is another route to getting started. It at least eliminates one of the two major challenges. If you do insist on a planked model I’d hold out for Model Shipways.

4

Thanks, guys…it seems there’s a lot to consider in the area of wooden kits…

maybe I’ll just keep my eyes open, and try to learn what I can about brands, techniques, pitfalls, etc., in regards to wooden kits…

5

My first and only experience in building a wooden ship goes back to my high school days, starting in about 1955. I finally finished her after graduating from college in the late 60’s. It came out to be a decent model, but as far as I am concerned, took far too much time and fiddling around with nasty little bits and vague plans, basically just a big drawing of the thing. About ten years ago, I finally threw it out after it self-destructed of old age. Today’s kit ships are probably much nicer, and more expensive, but I do not feel inclined to try another at this stage of the game.

6

Yeah, from what I understand, that’s a typical wooden kit experience, Chuck! Seems the complex kits, especially the Imported ones, become a huge pain, and people often find them too tedious, or too inaccurate, or just plain screwy, with nonsense instructions, or parts that don’t fit…

Nonetheless, I happened across a craigslist ad today, a gentleman selling an old Corel Berlin 1:40 scale, for a pretty good price…that kit is selling at Model-expo on sale for something like 800 bucks (which seems inflated to me, but anyway)…and he’s agreed to sell it to me for $50. Seriously. So, it’s a good enough deal for me to meet up with him after work, and see how it looks…but for 50 bucks, it’s kinda worth it just to try one out, and I happen to dig the Galleon-looking style of the ship.

Now for the bad: Yes, it’s a HECEPOB! He has done some work to it already, some of the planking has been installed on the hull, but he gave up soon after starting, so there could be some re-do work. Also, he bough the kit some 20 years ago, and it’s been in storage almost all of that time, so the materials could be in bad shape, though he assures me it has held up just fine over the years…

So, I guess I’ll see what’s what in a few hours, and I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

I mean, come on…fifty bucks is fifty bucks, but it’s worth taking a look, right?

7

^^Bargain and Corel has nice fittings.

8

Yeah…it was a great deal! I bought it.

It definitely needs some re-work…he did a bunch of the planking, and it looks really sloppy, with lots of gaps, and some of them are cracked where they bend…I tested the glue-points, and they can be removed easily. But I’m going to have to look around for some replacement material so I can re-plank it.

Also, a few pieces of the frame have been broken off at the upper corners. It’s obvious the semi-planked hull has been sitting around for awhile! But, I think with some planning and a little elbow grease, I can get the planks off and repair the broken frame corners. And it shouldn’t be too hard to find some new planks, right?

Aside from that, everything else is brand-spanking-new! Plans, instructions, lumber, sails, hundreds of fittings and accessories… it’s all still sealed in original bags…I can’t believe the sheer number of fittings, rigging cord, nails, brackets, etc…it’s a HUGE kit! And the metal pieces are really cool-looking!

I’m in the throes of a pretty serious build right now, so I can’t really begin to think about working on the Corel Berlin, but I’ll see if I can find replacement planks and keep my mind turning around the possibilities for repairing the frame parts…

Maybe I’ll put up a few pics, and see if I can get any advice/feedback…

I can tell you this: When I decide to get working on this thing, it’s going to be a very long project!

9

David K- good luck with that build, and please keep us updated on your progress!

10

Certainly…it will be awhile before I can start in on it, but I’ll be doing a lot of planning and LEARNING in the meanwhile…which brings me to my next query:

Who can recommend a couple of good books for wooden ship modeling?

The instructions for the kit are seriously vague and unclear (no doubt because of the poor English translation)…and regardless, it would be pure foolishness to undertake a model like this without doing a ton of reading to gain some understanding of the processes, techniques, tools, sequencing of parts, etc…

Plus, I’m considering just using the plans to scratchbuild the frame that the previous owner started…there are actual-size templates of all the parts, I might as well just make them myself and start from the beginning, instead of deconstructing his shoddy work and trying to repair it…

Lofty ambitions!

I’m looking at getting Mastini’s Ship Modeling Simplified, but there must be some other books that are good and especially in the dept. of planking???

Thanks, guys!

11

There was a thin paperback by Richard Mansir that was okay on planking, but it is long out of print. Title was A Modeler’s Guide to Hull Construction. You may be able to find it from an online used book dealer.

Problem is, model ship books don’t seem to stay in print that long, except for a few classics.

12

Thanks, Don! I’ll look into it! I get the feeling that planking is part of the reason so many people don’t finish their first wooden kit! It’s obviously a major task, and if done incorrectly, could make a person very discouraged…my intent is to learn as much as I can in the next few months, and try some practice runs on a jig (it worked well for my ratline education!)

Also, I know you recommended that a beginner to wood start with something simpler, and I understand the philosophy of it…but for the price I paid for this kit, I just had to do it! Now let’s hope I don’t screw it up! haha

13

David,

Model Shipways publishes a nice booklet called “Planking The Built-Up Ship Model; A Technical and Procedural Guide For Modelers Building All Types of Plank-On-Bulkhead and Plank-On Frame Ship Models From Scratch or Kit” by Jim Roberts.

Also, I emphatically disagree with the simpler is better approach for first-time sailing ship modelers. There was a story once in a ship modeling magazine about an elderly woman who built the Constructo HMS Victory as a first ship experience. She did a fantastic job. In other words, go for a ship that interests you; you a far, far more likely to finish it. If you can rig one line, you can rig a thousand. If you can rig one set of shrouds and ratlines, you can do so for any ship. Just learn as you go and don’t get discouraged when you make a mistake. Even experienced modelers make them.

Bill

14

Thanks, Bill! I just bid on a copy of the book you mentioned on eBay, we’ll see if I get it.

I’m hopeful I can make a good-looking subject of the Berlin kit…I’m certain it will take a long time, and I have a lot to learn. But I’ve been fortunate enough to have the advice and help of the many knowledgeable modelers here, and I’m expecting to ask a lot more questions as things progress!

15

Here’s a couple of photos of my new Corel Berlin 1:40 kit…I really think I may make the already-assembled bulkhead/frame parts from scratch (if I can!), and try to order some new walnut strips to re-plank it…then I can begin from the …well, the beginning! All the other stuff is still sealed in original bags… $50 bucks, heckuva good deal, since I’ve seen this kit for sale ranging anywhere from $500 to $1200… IMG_0371IMG_0369

16

Hi David K. I agree with Warshipguy in that starting off with an easy kit, whatever that is, might work for some, but if you find a ship that takes your fancy, you will enjoy the experience.

In all my years, I still don’t know what the difference is between an easy wooden kit and a difficult one. They all require lots of patience.

I actually like Artesania kits because some are almost a scratch build because of the very ordinary instructions. So a lot of planning and a little woodworking is required, which is okay if that’s what floats your boat.

As for historical accuracy, there are so many variables that even the so-called expert modelers cannot agree on what is ‘correct’ in most cases.

Take opinions with a grain of salt because we all differ on what we find good or otherwise with model brands. For example, I don’t mind building some Revell ship kits even though I find the quality of the kits very poor, whereas others think they are brilliant. To each his own, really.

It all boils down to what you fancy and the biggy…patience. Lots of patience.

So, find a ship you like and then chase price and brand.

17

As it turns out, I really like the style of the Berlin, and I’m glad I found it…especially at such a great price! Truth is, I likely would never be able to justify paying retail $$ price for something like that, so I definitely feel fortunate that I have the opportunity to build the kit!!

I have VERY little woodowrking experience, though…so I’m certainly hoping I can do it justice! I’ve just bought a couple of books, Planking the Built-up Ship model (recommended by Bill), and Ship Modeling Simplified (seems like a good basic introduction!)…I’m still wokring on my latest plastic kit, so in the meanwhile I can do some reading on wooden techniques, and maybe start accumulating some tools…I’m looking at a scroll saw for Xmas! Think it’ll be handy for making parts!

You can bet I’ll have a WIP build log for it once I get started! Thank goodness for online forums, and for modelers with experience I haven’t yet gained!

18

While I do have a fair amount of woodworking experience, I find the most useful skill for models that I get from previous woodworking is making a nice base. What I mean is, at least for planked hulls, very little normal woodworking skills carry over. If you do a carved or bread & butter hull from scratch, then you do use a lot of woodworking skills, but for the normal plank on bulkhead kits, not so much. Skills for those kits are pretty unique, so don’t let a lack of previous woodworking bother you. Also reason why so many of us recommend a pretty simple kit for the first couple of projects.

19

David,

There is another excellent book published by Model Shipways called “The Ship modeller’s Jackstay”. It goes over other issues with building wood ships. It is frequently found on eBay, but can be purchased on the Model Expo website.

Bill

20

The full title of the book Bill referred to is The Neophyte Shipmodeler’s Jackstay, and the author is George Campbell. He was a fine writer and draftsman; we’ve talked many times about his superb plans of the Cutty Sark, and he made the drawings for Longridge’s Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships. Campbell’s book, China Tea Clippers, is also excellent - and he drew the plans for several nice Model Shipways kits, along with those for the Smithsonian’s model of the Constitution.

The Jackstay was published by Model Shipways back in the early '60s, as sort of a general-purpose instruction manual for the company’s solid-hull wood kits. It’s one of my favorite ship modeling books. Some of the references to materials and techniques are sort of antiquated now, but the basic information is perfectly sound. I can think of few books that cram so much information between two covers - at such a low price. The information about the history of sailing ships and the basics of rigging is just as valid as it ever was. A person who learned everything in this book would be well on the way to becoming knowledgeable about ships and ship modeling.

Highly recommended. Here’s a link: http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MSB110 .