So I was thinking yesterday, what exactly is it that differentiates each of the Tiger I variants? Is there a clear separation between the initial/early/mid/late versions? Or were they constantly updated like the Pz IV’s? Was it a production location thing? Is there a reference that details where the “cutoffs” are to determine which one you’re looking at (or modeling)?
That’s 5 questions, it turns out. [:P] Shoot me any knowledge you have, guys.
Thanks in advance!
The easiest way to tell an early from a mid- or late, is the cupola. It’s taller, more drum-like, on the early Tigers. Also, roadwheels were switched to all steel ones on the late production models.
As far as reference, I’ve always used the AchtungPanzer volume for the Tiger/Sturmtiger. It shows in pretty good detail all the little differences in tool stowage, headlight placement, wheel-hub bolts, etc etc etc. Turns out there were lots and lots of little differences between the initial, early, mid, late and final versions. These will go far beyond the simple “cupola and roadwheels” answer.
Also, those categories can be further broken down, into categories like “early/mid” and “early/late”. An “early/late” Tiger I would be one that was produced during the later part of the early-model’s production run. It gets confusing, which is why I don’t even try to keep it all straight in my noggin. I just refer back to AchtungPanzer when I need to.
Of course, as AchtungPanzer isn’t perfect, you can always cross-reference it against “Tigers in Combat I” or the old Squadron/Signal book called “TIGER” or “Tiger in Action”. There are tons of usable reference materials on the different versions of the Tiger.
Jthurston pretty much nailed it…the Achtung Panzer series is good at pointing out the tiny variations within a larger production run that most modeleres aren’t concerned with, but if you want to know when the jack-tonnage capacity went up, or when the gun travel lock on the rear hull was dropped, or when the roof armor thickness was increased, it will tell you…
…one odd thing about improvements throughout a German AFV’s production run is that they used the “first-in, first-out” method with parts, so just when you thought you saw the last of an “old” variation appear, it might show up again months later in another run when stocks of the “newer” parts ran down and the older parts were again put onto vehicles…
Squadron’s books are a wealth of info in a relatively tiny package. Lots of drawings and great color plates, much better than Osprey.
You’re not going to do better than the info contained here
http://missing-lynx.com/panzer_facts/pftiger.htm
Neither Squadron nor Osprey are going to give you the detail you requested
Wow. That list is amazing…can’t believe they have so many accurate references to produce something like that! So, with all of those alterations being what they are, when say, Tamiya issues an “initial”, “early”, “mid”, and “late” Tiger, what are they using to distinguish them? Sheerly a date-of-production cutoff, or were some of the alterations so major they warranted an almost re-naming?
Well, some modifications and upgrades were major, others not so much.
Generally speaking, an “initial” Tiger I is one with the original design. This would include the taller cupola, smoke dischargers, the storage bins on the side of the turret (some were on both sides), two headlights on the front of the hull, Fiefel air cleaners on the engine deck, and wide, rubber-tire-havin’ roadwheels. No Zimmerit (hadn’t been invented yet).
Early-production Tiger Is have all that, but they’d settled on a turret stowage bin that fit properly on the back of the turret. Things like shovels and other tools were beginning to be moved around to better locations on the hull deck, and some vehicles had only one headlight instead of two. AchtungPanzer can tell you where to fix a shovel or a track tool by specific date. This is the version seen at Kursk, where the smoke dischargers were beginning to be removed in the field due to safety issues. These tanks were also Zimmerit-free.
As Tigers were continually produced, changes continued to be implemented. Sometimes you see one with the early-style cupola and steel-rimmed wheels, and other times you see the late-style cupola and rubber-rimmed wheels. These tanks are generally referred to as “mid-production” Tigers. They may or may not have Zimmerit, depending on their date of manufacture.
A late-production Tiger I is one with the lower cupola and all-steel roadwheels. It will have no smoke dischargers (with a few exceptions), no Feifel air cleaners, one headlight (if any), and will be covered with Zimmerit.
Final-production Tiger Is only differ from late-production ones in minor details, like the grooves cut into the angles on the cupola - stuff like that. The end of production for Tiger Is came before the end of Zimmerit use, so all late- and final-production examples were zimmed up.
Hope that helps. Also, I hope it’s correct - LOL
If you ever get a chance to buy or peruse T Jentz’ book “DW to Tiger I” you’ll see exactly how well researched the T1 really is. Not surprising when it’s probably one of the most recognizable and popular tanks in history.
If you ever take on the Dragon late Tiger kits, this information becomes even more valuable, just speaking of the changes in the “late” production run. Plus it will help you “wade” through the Dragon instructions and sprues to correctly build the tank that you want. The 3&1 comes with three mantlets, two back plates, three loaders hatches, etc…It pays to learn the iterations…early mid…late because we have so many Tiger choices nowadays…
Steve
First of all the germans never distinguished between initial, early, mid and late production, this is a later invention. The Tiger I changed model or “ausführung” only once, from ausf H1 to ausf E.
Not entirely right, the first stowage bins such as the side mounted bins on the s.Pz.Abt 502 vehicles were all field mods, some units made their own bins, others attached old Pz III bins to the turret. The were early ones didn’t have smoke dischargers either.
There are examples of so-called mid productions with Feifel filters and for a while they continued to add the moundting studs for the filters before dropping them entirely.
The best book reference for the changes on the Tiger I is Thomas L. Jentz’s book “D.W to Tiger I, Design, Production and Modifications” he has written a similar book about the Tiger II “V.K 45.02 to Tiger II, Design, Production and Modifications” these books are absolutely essential for the serious Tiger modeller.
Yup.
See? It does get confusing. Many of the designations that we modern-day modelers cling to were never dreamt of by the Germans. If you mentioned an SdKfz. 251 (or worse yet, a “Hanomag”) to a German soldier, he’d look at you like you had three ears. But if you called it an SPW, he’d know what you meant. And he may or may not have known the difference between an SPW ausf. C and an SPW ausf. D, except that the D had a little more room. Similarly, I was a humvee driver in the Army for some years, but I can’t tell you the differences between the varying types of humvee. Some are up-armored, some are troop trucks and some are gun trucks - that’s about it, that’s all I know about them. The German soldier, unless he was a mechanic or something, wouldn’t have called them “late-production” or whatever, but for our purposes it comes in handy to know the difference.
We generally only refer to Tigers as early, mid, etc because of the differences uncovered in the vast body of research that has been done by bright and diligent people like Thomas Jentz (and others).
I’m just making generalizations about the stowage bins and other characteristics of the very early Tigers, mainly for illustration purposes. I stand corrected about exactly who put them there and when. One of the projects I’ve got on the drawing board for next year is an early-production Tiger I with a Panzer III rommelkiste - should be a fun build. Evidently, I’ve got a lot of research to do - and now I know whom to ask about it [bow]…[swg]
I agree. I don’t think there is anything sacreligious about we modelers using: “initial, early, mid, late, or very late” to generally distinguish major variants of a Tiger I, or any AFV for that matter. When folks object to those terms I feel it is rivet-counting in the Forum…or worse yet, showing off…in reality, there were probably NO two Tigers built alike–exactly. It is historically interesting that the Germans only had two designations that were official for the Tiger I, but who is to say they didn’t come up with their own terms to distnguish the diffs? I bet they did. And if they didn’t, it was because they didn’t need to; modelers and kit makers do.
But for the everyday, or even serious modeler, those terms fit nicely into today’s vocab—IMO…
Wow…looks like I need to expand the reference library! Or hope that my local one has specialty books on Tiger variants. [;)]
Thanks for taking the time, guys. Tons of knowledge in this group!
And that is the reason right there. They didn’t need to. Most of these terms like mid, late early and the Porsche and Henschel turret of the Tiger II is something that the modeling industri has invented to help us (the modellers) to distinguish between the model kits.
This is perfectly alright by me, from my books i know the correct terms and i understand that not everyone else does or even feel the need to. I usually say Porsche turret eventhough i know it isn’t correct, but i just think it’s a waste of time and space to say “Krupp turret designed for the V.K 45.03 P” and no one would know what im talking about anywa.
But when someone asks a question here on the forum i will give the correct answer if i have it, and then it’s up to the readers what they want to do with this information.
…here are just a couple of examples of the minutia you can get into in building specific Tiger I variants:
No, you’re absolutely right - I think we’re all in agreement about the development of terminology as opposed to use of the actual wartime terms. The original question, I think, had to do with how the different terms like early, mid and late are delineated, and I think we’ve all pretty much nailed it.
[tup] Roger that. You guys were on top of it!