What's up with the BIG Heller kits?

Dave-

I just finished a pretty good book dealing with the gap between illusion and reality.

The authors thesis is that’s where art resides.

But in order to be relevant it has to connect to both. Connection is a relative term for sure.

I consider you an artist. Your wash techniques really have a great look and feel.

I am a partner in a pretty successful design business. She’s the artist, I’m the guy who gets it biddable.

Hats off to you, and you can easily choose not to indulge too deeply in Serious Scale Modeling.

A really good example to look at is model railroading. It runs the gamut from true artists like Malcolm Furlong or John Allen to people who concentrate on the virtual- operations and timetables. I’ve never met a model railroader who was deeply involved in operations and timetables who invented his own system; but they may be out there.

My Grandfather was a past President of the NMRA and he scratchbuilt all of his true 1/48 scale stuff. To be sure, he mixed in commercial parts because he had a full time job too, but his models are really pretty whimsical. Carved wood conductor frying bacon in the caboose, etc. Did he have the right badges for the New Michigan Central? No, because no such railroad existed, but my Grandfather lived in Michigan and loved the New York Central.

I have most of his models. My only quest is that I have a photo of him posing with a model of a Southern Pacific Cab Forward. That would be something…

But he did his thing and obviously was really well respected.

So again, Bravo Sir!

Now dammit, did the dead lights on my yacht have six surfaces or eight?

Dave…I didn’t pic up the Lindberg Sea Witch…but the older Marx Version with metal decks and the Marx Version of the Swordfish…both 1/96 scale and full hull versions. Beautiful models…just waiting for my anxious hands to get at.

I’m also anxious to see your attempt of the LR…

I moved, so I have lots of putting away to do, before I get back to model building.

Rob

Well, you guys…

I was just out in the garage, dipping brass chain and brass pins in some Blacken-It, watching in amazement as the pieces turned dark before my eyes, and it occurred to me…

I’m super-thrilled to be making homemade chainplates.

I guess there’s no denying that I have indeed become a bit of a Serious Modeler…just kinda!

Touche.

David wait till the time comes when you find yourself forming and soldering each link!, oh yeah that will be fun.

Michael

Haha…

I guess it just shows that I am in fact developing more patience (one of my primary goals in modeling)…

Hey Rob- don’t suppose you’ve moved to the mainland side of Puget Sound?

No bro…just about 3 miles down the road…I do have a much nicer space to display my models(a fantastically wood clad sitting room with fire place and library) Sweeeeet!

I’ll be back at it later this summer…(building models)…once house repairs are done and I’m fully moved over(My wife inherited her Parents home).

Good luck with your builds and remember…it’s about having fun. Being good at it doesn’t hurt either…heehee

Keep up the good work and fine postings.

Rob

I have been reading this post with high interest as I have both the Heller HMS Victory and the La Soiel Reale kits what’s been holding me back is the blocks and deadeyes replacements, so far I have not been able to find the sizes to replace with, I read treads like this on modelers replacing said items but no one had given any catalog numbers or suppliers would it be so kind to give a list of what numbers of deadeyes and blocks for each kit I’d appreciate it immensely ? and would it be possible to see photos of your build Don of your Soiel Royale ? thanks again. Karl

I can’t tell you how many you’ll need, but I can tell you how to figure out the sizes for yourself.

The sizes of the deadeyes in the Heller kits appear to be about right. So you can measure them.

None of the blocks in either kit are small enough to represent the smallest ones on the actual ships. To get those sizes you’ll need to consult plans and/or books. And you’ll need to decide (though not in advance of starting) just how much rigging you want to do. To set up all the standing and running rigging that each ship would carry in fighting trim you’d need upwards of a thousand blocks and deadeyes. Unless you have a good deal of experience, though, I wouldn’t recommend trying that. There are plenty of lines that can quite legitimately be left off a display model. Many people rig the standing rigging and the key lines of the running rigging - the braces, lifts, and halyards - and leave it at that.

And there’s no reason to buy all the blocks and deadeyes at once. My suggestion is to start out by ordering a dozen of each size you think you’ll need, compare them to the ones in the kits, and order more as you need them. (If you do a halfway thorough job of rigging, you’ll spend several hundred dollars on blocks and deadeyes. But you can spread that out over several years.)

I’m a big fan of the cast metal ones from Bluejacket ( www.bluejacketinc.com ). The deadeyes you need are the “uppers” and “lowers,” unstropped. It’s relatively easy to count the number of deadeyes you’ll need.

Determining the numbers of blocks is a little harder; I wouldn’t even try to do it in advance. Before you get far into the Victory you need to acquire a decent set of plans. You’ll find lots of recommendations here in the Forum. There apparently are no plans (at least in English-language sources) for the Soleil Royal. The best way to learn how to rig it is to get hold of a copy of R.C. Anderson’s The Rigging of Ships In the Days of the Spritsail Topmast. That’ll tell you everything you need to know to rig a model like that.

Bluejacket blocks are nice, too; I’ve used them to rig my last several models. But for these two particular kits I think I’d recommend considering the wood ones offered by Chuck Passaro’s new company, Syren Ship Models (www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com ). I haven’t bought any yet, but the photos of them look superb. And I think they’re a little cheaper than Bluejacket’s.

Hope that helps at least a little. Good luck.

P.S. The name of the French ship is Le Soleil Royal. “Le” means “the,” “soleil” means “sun,” and “royal” means “royal,” or “regal.” The name is a reference to Lois XIV, “the sun king.” “Soleil” is a masculine noun, so there’s no e on the end. “Le” and “Royal” are masculine adjectives. (If the noun were feminine, the name would be “La Soleile Royale.”) French has no neuter gender. On one of the other web forums we once had an interesting discussion of whether other languages use feminine pronouns, like “she” and “her,” to refer to ships. A French reader explained that almost all French ship names are masculine, the exceptions being ships named after women who’ve been titled Dames of France. Example: La Jeanne D’Arc, named after Joan of Arc.)

As best I can remember from the French courses I took about 45 years ago, the name would be pronounced something like “lih soLAY whaYAH.” But I imagine somebody with a better knowledge of the language can correct me.

jtilley,

You made a comment at the end of your entry above that the Revell Constitution is in “some ways better than the Heller Victory”. I am going to be building both kits. They will be pretty much my focus at my modeling bench. I have read your past thoughts on the Heller HMS Victory. My question for you is why do you consider the Revell Constitution a better kit in some regards? And any insights you can offer me on building both of these kits would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Sorry to tell you, but professor Tilley died a few years ago, it was a huge loss to this forum. Hopefully other forum members can help you on that.

It is about seventeen inches wide. The base is wider than tips of oars to protect them.

I cannot put words in our dearly departed Professor’s mouth.

Having spent more than some slight time corresponding with him, I know wher the two of us agreed in the main. To that end, I will use my words to opine.

Heller, especially in the era they developed Victory, were significantly more concerned with churning out kits, than the satisfaction of the modelers who purchased them.

Revell, on the other hand marketed their kits to modelers, and put some effort in giving them a product that was build-able.

Revell has a rigging plan (two really) that is based in the actual rigging of the ship. Heller, is more of a “suggestion” (if not quite as spurious as some of their other large kits).

The detail in the moulding of the Revell kit is really worlds better.

Now, in all fairness, both kits have horrific ratlines that have no resemblance to reality.

You should arm yourself with a set of Campbell’s plans for both. A copy of the Anatomy of the Ship for each can be helpful (C. Nepan Longridge’s Anatomy of Nelson’s Ships may actually hold you back, as the author builds a 1/48 version, from scratch, and frm just before WWII, and makes Every Single Thing. As in the anchor stock wales are make of individual planks; every line was spun to specification on a home-made rope walk.

There is a wealth of aftermarket for both kits, now, that was not true when this tread was begun. Much of the PE now available for Victory addresses Heller’s weaknesses.

Our member here, @ModelMonkey has extensive 3d printed accessories which will improve the Heller kit (just at some expense)

The Heller kit originally came with instructions that were bird cage floor worthy.In french, with many Errors.

Imai reboxed the kit and substituted clearly superior instructions, even though they are in Japanese (I have a set).

I have heard that later releases mhad English instructions that were usable, although I have never seen them.

Both kits have their pros and cons.

Here’s Tilley on the Victory:

https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/129206.aspx?page=1

Bondoman was my earlier handle.

Bill