Hi everyone , I was curious about the difference between the Fairchild C-119 Flying Boxcar and the Nord 2501 Noratlas . I’ve managed to accumulate six [6] Heller 1/72 scale Noratlas kits . I had ordered two from Squadron and somehow somebody got the order mixed up and sent me two more . I also already had two in my stash to start with . Anyway two reference books on the IDF/AF , “Camouflage & Markings of the Israeli Airforce 1948 to 1967 and 1967 to 2001” ; Finally arrived , I ordered them months ago . So three noratlas’s I’ll build for the IDF/AF , one overall aluminium with a white roof section , one with the Blue/Brown upper surface and Grey undersides , the third build with the Sand/Tan/Green over Light blue Camouflage . The reference books are chock full of photo’s and color camouflage pattens for all the IDF/AF Aircraft .
Today I was in the hobby store and saw the 1/72 scale Italeri C-119 Flying Boxcar . I was tempted to buy the kit but it was priced at $45 and I was working with in a small budget and I already had several other reference books in the shopping basket , so I put the kit back .
The C-119 bear’s a striking resemblance to the Noratlas , I was wondering how difficult it would be to convert a Noratlas to a C-119 . From what I can tell so far , the nose cone appears to be slightly different . Are there other major external difference I haven’t noticed .
Any help is alway’s greatly appreciate ; Kind regards John
There is no possible conversion- they are different in every way. You are lucky to have all those Noratlas’, as they’ve served all over the world and the IAF is only the beginning. See Wiki.
There are a lot of significant conflicts where the Noratlas was involved- most anywhere you find the Foreign Legion, for example. They operated in tandem with C-119s at Dien Bien Phu, and later in Algeria and Morocco.
Vive La France as my buddy Christoph would say. He was pulled out of Rwanda in a Transall, but that’s another story.
Two different birds that just look similar, sort of akin to the F86/MiG-15 resemblance. Build both!
The C-119 was slightly larger, faster, and had a slightly larger cargo/troop capacity.
Stik you are airborne. Did you ever dovetail with the French paras? Always seemed like an extremely well trained and tough group to me, the two times I met them .Squinty eyed rude people, not like American soldiers who have manners.
Thank’s guy’s , After looking at wiki and google/yahoo images , your 100% correct about the huge number of difference’s . Their only similar as being a twin boom cargo aircraft . Anyway I’ve made a start on the first build ; completed some interior airbrushing , I’ll glue all those fuselage windows next . I’ll put a few dollars aside over the next few weeks and I’ll pick up one of those Italeri C-119’s … Just in time for christmas I guess .
The Heller Noratlas kit comes with two different canopy’s , I’ll have study those two IDF/AF books closely to see which one the Israeli Airforce used . Thanks again everyone , John
Bondo- We worked alongside some French troopers overseas. But they were not airborne. Some kind of mobile/motorized unit. I agree on the well trained part, but in skin tight fatigues and their manner just did not come across as tough. There was no love lost between our two groups. We did also occasionally cross paths with Polish paratroopers. Much more agreeable fellows.
The instructions suggest 20 grams of nose weight , however there’s not much room in the nose , only got about 5 grams in there . Squashed up some more fishing sinkers to go under the floor near the crew entry door , perhaps if that doesn’t stop her from tail sitting , I could add more inside the engine nacelle’s . I’m a little concerned though ; about putting to much strain on the landing gear and wheels . [%-)]
John .
Keep building it looks like its coming along nicely.
I haven’t built mine yet, but the actual aircraft was a tailsitter too. There’s a brace/ skid bit that I think drops down just behind the rear side door and is included in the model. I’d go with that. The model looks great- unusual subject.
Bondoman , I’m having trouble finding the brace/skid part you mentioned . the only parts left on the sprue that aren’t included in the instruction diagrams , are part[s] number #50 . those two parts are not much bigger than the front antenna #53 . I checked through one of the other five kits in the stash and couldn’t see anything different on those two sprue’s . I thought I might have accidently thrown something out . Although when I remove parts from the sprue , I allways throw the cut sprue into a seperate box just in case I’ve overlooked a small part . Perhaps my kits are slightly different to your kit ???
Hmm, could be right. Here’s what you can do:
Here’s a site with some nice pics.
http://koti.welho.com/msolanak/kyprosengl.html
The opening on the edge of the center wing section is much bigger than the narrow tab on the ends of the tail boom/wing section . I suppose it would be better to use super glue for the wing joint , seeing that when it come’s to airbrushing the Noratlas , I’ll be holding her by the wing . I would hate if the wing joint cracked or worse broke away during painting . Also I still can’t decide as to wether to leave the rear cargo doors posed open or not . Open may save me some time fitting them closed . I’ll check airliners.net , they had a lot of noratlas pic’s , I might find one showing the rear clamshell doors open ???
John
That’s a bear. I would build up the tab with plastic strips at least top and bottom til it’s a tight fit.
Here’s a pic:
http://dautremont.chez-alice.fr/Cargo/Noratlas_1.jpg
That’s a great pic , Thank’s Bill . there appears to be some struts and stay’s positioned at the top of the clamshell doors along with a support cable on each door as well . “BUT” please set me right , is that a toilet facility on the inside of the right clamshell door .[%-)].
John
I have no idea, but if the TP is in the duffel on the left, I’ll hold it in for the flight!!!
Reminds me of a little quip in a recent Air+Space mag article about a Boeing team that repairs broken a/c.
There was a 757 that really bent it’s tail on a take off and needed a whole replacement back end, at the pressure bulkhead. The fixers unscrewed the section and lifted it away.
The writer described walking back through the cabin to the rear and said " I saw a view I’d never want to see going back to the toilets on a flight"!
I came across this pic last night , It’s from one of my aircraft books , 50 Years of the Desert Boneyard , by Philip D Chinnery . The caption next to the pic say’s it is a C-119F Flying Boxcar . I went an ordered Italeri’s 1/72 scale C-119J Flying Boxcar this morning , I was thinking of painting mine as in the pic I posted with UNITED STATES MARINES on the fuselage sides . I was just curious if there was much difference between the ‘F’ and ‘J’ versions ???
Kind regards John
The Italeri kit is a C-119-C if it’s the new release. A fine kit indeed. It’s weird though, a google search for Italeri C-119J found many many sites showing the new -C box.
The good news is that the one major difference between the -C and the -F are that the -F has R3350’s instead of R4360’s for engines (I’m sure that there are other differences but I don’t know what they are), AND the Italeri kit comes with BOTH engines and props. I’m sure that the Italeri kit will make up into your USMC model just fine. The one obvious thing is the radome, but that should be something you could make up. Nice project, I’d say.
I’ll scratch around for decal ideas- kind of a Navy scheme. USMC called it the R4Q-1 and 2. Looks like there were about 40 or so. My old friend Tad used to tell me that the Marines got everything last, maybe that’s why there were three or so involved in the Flight of the Phoenix movie; end of the line.
699 there has a serious case of antenna-itis. You should do a little research- the fact that she ended up in the boneyard is interesting for such a clodhopper.
The 1/72 Italeri C-119C arrived today . The kit comes with a nice 48 page photographic reference manual , there’s lots of cockpit pics and outside walkaround photo’s and 4 color side profiles. The kit also include’s a Dodge WC51 Jeep… “nice touch” . It could be a while before I get around to building her , I’m glad I bought the kit , she’s a beauty [tup].
John.
Oh yes it’s a masterpiece. although I hear that working one’s way through fit problems takes awhile, but it’s a complex configuration. I have one in the stash too, which will be the Earthquake McGoon fight over Dien Bien Phu on 1954.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jeffbass.com/images/Earthquake's%2520Final%2520Flight.jpg&imgrefurl=http://jeffbass.com/index.cfm%3Ffuseaction%3Dportfolio.viewItem%26item_id%3D136%26cat_id%3D21&usg=__630keHaXuQw3yto_pZNZ1g1oTiM=&h=306&w=434&sz=16&hl=en&start=5&um=1&tbnid=YJ7NqZjV5HPQkM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dearthquake%2Bmcgoon%2Bdien%2Bbien%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
Notice in the decals the USAF in a red: that is meant to be put on the “French” a/c over the USAF Insignia Red “high recognition” wing tips as though it was a black lettering painted over. Very cool.
That kit decal sheet will also serve you well for other USAF projects, as those markings were very standard in the '50s.
Hows the Noratlas?
Bill
Hi bill , I built up the wing tabs on the Noratlas as you suggested the other day , but I haven’t glued the wings to the fuselage as yet . Hopfully tonight . I spent the last couple of days decaling other finished Helicopters , I was running out of room , on and under the workbench . Earlier today I started the airbrushing on a F-8E crusader , F-104A , F-15B , RF-4E , F-16A and A-6E Intruder . I’m trying to get through the stack of half completed kits . Once the wings are on the Noratlas she shouldn’t be too far from masking and airbrushing . I’ve decided to close the rear cargo doors on this build , I’ll try positioning them open on one of the next 5 Noratlas builds .
John.