I hate to just say which is “better”, knowing how vague it can be, but in this case I hope it’s not too bad. When going for that highly reflective natural metal finish, what would be the better choice, Foil or Alclad? Price, realism- all that. It’s going to be used for large areas, not just detail parts. I’ve never used Alclad, that’s why I ask.
Thank you much! [:D]
You will get a lot of opinions on this one. I have tried both and I’m sticking with the paint. Although foil is attractive, IMHO, models that are finished with it look like they are models covered with foil. I think there are applications where the foil use is warranted, but, ALcladll is superb stuff and replicate what is happening on the real thing. It is very difficult to master foil application, and my main complaint with it is the fact that you cannot get different shades on panels unless you paint over the foil, which kind of defeats the purpose.
I admire any modeler who has the ability to use BMF and make a decent looking model.
Mike,
Which is better? Short answer is - both.
The both have their uses…BMF is fantastic - conforms to almost any surface or curvature, can’t be beaten for leading edges on airliners, and it looks like metal. The bright sheen is probably a little unrealistic for NMF on WWll a/c, as exposure to the ambient atmosphere creates a protective surface coating of aluminum oxide on NMF a/c that dulls off the bright shine. BMF can be very delicate and hard to mask over and is easily damaged.
Alclad isn’t as bright as BMF, but has as many colors as you could ever need, is nearly bullet-proof, and can be masked over with ease and no fear of damaging the underlying Alclad.
Do yourself a favor - buy BOTH…experiment with them…and you’ll never regret buying both of them.
So in short, they’re both better. Better than any other NMF on the market.
It’s a matter of personal preference. I much prefer using Alclad2 & think it gives a more realistic finish than BMF. Many prefer the look of BMF because it is a real metal. I occasionally use BMF to highlite a panel or 2, but I use it mainly to mask canopies.
Regards, Rick
I agree that BMF usually seems too reflective and, therefore, not realistic. However, there must be some technique using it that allows less reflectivity, since I occasionally see really convincing models in BMF.
Take a look at the following from just the other day.
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/mig21pfbs_1.htm
This person combined both Alclad and BMF, but apparently his mig is mostly the latter.
One thing that seems true for natural metal finishes is that combinations of shade and technique are generally best.
Not much help, I know, but thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.
Take care,
Mark
Bare Metal Foil is now available in Chrome, standard, aluminum and matte. This gives four levels of reflectivity or shine. It is still a lot of work to apply it and make it look good.
Applying Alclad in various shades requires a lot of masking and separate spraying sessions also, aka a lot of work. Both concepts add up to, “You get what you pay for.” You are not going to get a really nice looking NMF without a fairly large amount of work.
Darwin, O.F. [alien]
Depends on the scale, wouldn’t you say? BMF looks really good on larger scales, like 1/32 or 1/24, but it’s going to look toy-like in the small scales. Alclad looks good in any scale, but it ain’t cheap! Be prepared to part with a Large portion of your “modeling fund” if you’re going to stock up on a good variety of shades.Personally, I find I use more Alclad than BMF, but there’s an application for both products. You can also achieve some really nice effects with the SNJ powders.
If you go for the Alclad, be advised that it is EXTREMELY thin. It definitely does NOT need further reduction. I’ve had trouble controlling the flow of the paint through the airbrush, and I’ve found that it’s very easy to “flood” the surface.This will give you a blemish that’s hard to salvage without starting over. Good luck!
I use Bare Metal Foil all the time. I have tried Alclad and SNJ but I don’t like the clean up and vapors that go along with them. That’s the down side IMHO. The down side to Bare Metal Foil is that it is delicate to work with. Bare Metal Foil comes in the three different types and as far as the brightness of the completed model, in order to get a less shiny surface and to vary the brightness of different panels, I airbrush a coat of Micro-Flat on the areas that I want to dull up. The Micro-Flat gives the desired effect for the oxydized surfaces. I have even used a single light coat of Future that actually reduced the shine of the foil.[8D]
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/Csaulet2001/P-47Dporttopview.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/Csaulet2001/Ki-61portside2.jpg
I believe there is no difinitive answer on this one. I have used both products, and have had decent results with each. It seems the big complaint with foil is that it’s too reflective. Alot depends on the aircraft you want to model. For instance, take a look at photos of a B-58 Hustler, or a just about any F-104. I would say the skin on those planes are extremely reflective. Bright, shiny. almost mirror like. I agree that many nmf planes in service were oxidized and dull, but there are times when the planes were polished and clean. For example, a squadron commanders plane.
I have color photos of this plane and I can tell you it was polished. Bright,shiney, and reflective. Commander Tice 404th P-47
In this instance I prefered to use foil. I dont think I could have got the same look with Alclad.
BMF is a sheet of aluminum, and after all, isn’t that what a plane is covered with?
Notice the different look to the wing panels. The wing is covered with foil from the same sheet! There is a grain to the foil, and to vary the shades you simply turn the foil 90 degrees to the other to achieve a reflective variation. If you turn the plane around, the dark panels are now light and the light panels are dark. Just like on a real plane. You cannot do that with alclad.
Here’s an F104 foiled. The wing tanks are Alclad. I used both.
This model is entirely Alclad.
So I guess what it boils down to is what you ,as the individual modeler ,sees in your eyes as what is more realistic for the aircraft you want to build. IMHO they both look great, and can achieve excellent nmf’s with either. Bottom line, you be the judge.
Regards,
Jerry
You guys are all talking about those foils and AlcladII, but where can I find it???
Never saw it here in Belgium…
Can only find Revell and Humbrol paints frequentally…
Saw Tamyia paint twice and found Modelmaster paints only in one shop…
Help!!
Cheers,
Jürgen
Jurgen,
You should be able to find Bare metal foil, and all the Alclad products online at Great models web store.
Jerry
Thanks, everyone. I’ll be sure to read through all of these very carefully, because I’m still on the edge. I have used Foil before, but my main complaints were these:
Decals silvered on it (untreated with any type of over-base coat.).
When I tried to overcoat some with some Future, it just beaded up and dried cloudy.
If we can, may we talk price? I know BMF is about $5 a sheet, but I’d like to use some more on another B-36 (where reflectivity isn’t a problem).
[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/b362.jpg[/image]
You can imagine how much Foil was used on this project, though. Over five sheets! I have no idea hom much Alclad costs, and I was wondering which alternative was more economical (kinda like average price per square inch). I can see getting alot more coverage with Alclad, but if it’s WAAAAAYY overpriced, I can also see it not being worth it.
Hey Lucien,
I’ve heard of people using thin household foil and the ultra-thin foil from Cadbury bars. This involves the extra step of applying some adhesive, but would not be too costly, and the latter has fringe benefits.
Has anyone ever tried this?
Mark
i may be off but i rather like the foiling. i have used tinfoil, candy foils, krome foil. and a wide variety of paints. the only thing you really dont get with foil is the blemishes in a natural metal a/c. with the tinfoil and the candy foils you really need to be careful, they wrinkle easy and can be a major headache. i did a 1/72 p38 last summer and it took me about forty hours to put tinfoil on it.
joe
I’ve only experimented on a small area of a 1/144th B-29 with Bare Metal Foil, so far.
Then I tried using 0000 Grade steel wool (very fine stuff), as suggested by others, and it successfully dulled the sheen down quite nicely. And even at this scale the very fine swirl of scratches the steel wool leaves are really not noticeable.
I have yet to try applying decals over it.
Celestialsphere, Melbourne, Australia
![http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/b362.jpg[/image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/LHprs/b362.jpg%5B/image%5D){kind=link}