Many people assume that needle size alone dictates how fine a line one can airbrush, but this is misleading. I’ve been digging around trying to find proof for this and finally tripped across an article from the How to Airbrush website.
This is a clear example of how different airbrushes, with varying needle sizes are capable of spraying the same fine lines. As with most things, practice makes the difference.
Thanks for the link, Bill. I find it interesting that not only does the Iwata BCS have a .5mm tip, but it is a siphon fed airbrush. Which shows that you don’t have to have a gravity fed brush to do fine lines. It’s also interesting that he says he could have done the same thing with a Paasche VL or a Badger 150.
yes, it’s the hands, not the tool, that does the work.
My single action Badger 200 with the medium head is easily capable of lines that thin, I also have the 150 and 100LG all with the exact same head and I’ve yet to learn the trigger control to match the single action. The only benefit that gravity fed airbrushes provide me is a slightly easier cleanup. Once I’m done cleaning the brush, I’m done. With the siphon fed, I still have to deal with the color cup or bottle! I could add that the dual action provides “on the fly” line width variance, but the reality is that I rarely have that need.
The point I’ve been trying to make is we all put too much credence into specifications, when they really don’t mean much, except to experts, all of whom know better than to believe the specifications! [:D]
I don’t think that anyone here disagrees with you on this. But the needle size does matter, plus the taper length, etc. etc…
Bill, you should read this article too. The review author calls it a Sagyma model SW770. It is similar to a PowerCat 203 airbrush that I have down to the last details. It is a made in China knock-off of the Iwata HP-C Plus. As the reviewer, Rato Marczak, said, it is capable of pretty fine details and usually costs less than $50 shipped in the US. Few modeler draw 0.2 mm fine line, nor normally spray wider than 1-inch or so. Shall we all buy the cheapest airbrush available?
Who’s talking price? The subject was nozzle size. Besides, if you read the conclusion of the article, the brush has several problems including a trigger that clicks, a nozzle that doesn’t center, and a gasket that doesn’t stand up to lacquer thinner. He even says it won’t last long. Why would you want to buy one?
Keilau, you are taking this too personally. It isn’t the tip size that controls line width, though a smaller nozzle can reduce over spray making thin lines easier to accomplish. It isn’t even needle taper, which controls the transition from no air to more air. The long the taper, the easier it is to control line width, but it doesn’t create the width.
What dictates the line thinness is the linear air flow angle which controls the material coming off the needle tip. And I have NEVER seen this last item used as a specification. What should be supplied by every manufacturer is the range of line widths that each airbrush is capable of producing. Badger provides this, and so far no other company supplies it.
However, a good airbrush must balance all three items: nozzle, needle taper and flow angle, in order to perform properly. Other than the knock off airbrushes, virtually every manufacturer is capable of performing will within the requirements of the typical scale modeler.
But since you asked, if the airbrush is quality built, why not buy cheap? My Badger 200 is far more capable than my meager skills, and was under $50 (in fact the Badger Garage Sale has the 200 with braided hose on sale for $44 + S&H), one of my Badger 100LGs was bought from the Garage Sale for a mere $35, and you can get the 100 Side Feed for only $30.80, so it’s possible to buy good airbrushes for cheap. Expensive doesn’t always mean good, and cheap doesn’t have to mean shoddy. Why pay more when you don’t have to?
Side note, does anyone here own a 100 side feed? How does it spray compared to a 100 LG? I was thinking of grabbing a garage sale one, and wondered what folks thought of theirs?
You and I are actually talking about the same. Bill suggested that all airbrush are the same in a good user’s hand and all can draw very fine lines, therefore the nozzle size and spec does not matter. I disagreed and said that the ability to draw fine line is not necessarily the sign of a “good” airbrush.
The balance in hand, the feel of the trigger control, resistance to clogging and needle damage are important to the selection of an airbrush. These are all subjective, but they can be traced to the construction and manufacturing quality of the airbrush. The history and working principles of an airbrush is well know, not a black art.
In a modern internal mix airbrush, the air and paint are mixed inside the body of the AB and then flow throght the head between the nozzle and needle to achieve fine atomization. A smaller nozzle and longer needle taper achieve finer results. Clogging begins at the needle tip with a small amount of dried paint, then grow and eventually clog the airbrush. A polished needle is less prone to clogging. Some interesting pictures by Zsolt demonstrate that. He also proposed a solution. While these measures by the professional are extreme, but the effect does give us some insight into the working of an airbrush and is NOT irrelevant to the modelers.
One airbrush manufacturer makes their nozzle holes large and the needle taper short to improve resistance to clogging and needle damage. Another uses harder material and polish the needle to achieve the same. The later is able to use small nozzle hole and longer needle taper. Do these two airbrush work the same? No, they don’t. Do I have a preference between the two? Sure I do.
I know that an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS does not work the same as a Badger Patriot 105 because I have both. Both should be good enough for 99% of the modelers, but they ARE very different due to the 2 times larger nozzle of the Patriot 105 fine needle and the 2 times longer taper of the Iwata Eclipse.
I don’t know if the Badger Velocity will work the same as a Harder & Steenbeck Evolution because I do not have an Velocity, and acquire an Evolution only recently. They have similar nozzle/needle size of 0.2 mm plus/minor 0.01.
I know that Bill will say that “Kei, you are taking this too personal.” [;)]
I’ve also seen the hairline to 1 or 1 1/2 inches listed on other airbrush manufactures sites. A lot of the specs on Chicago Airbrush site has the same information.
A friend of mine has the 100SF, and it sprays EXACTLY like the 100LG. The only physical difference between the 100LG, 100SF and 150 is the connection point for the cup. The side feed is part gravity, part siphon as the tube connects on the “flat”.
In use they all perform equally well, with minor differences in air pressure. The gravity fed 100LG can be dialed down quite low, I’ve gone as low as 10 psi with mine. While the 150 requires more air pressure to pick up the paint, around 15 psi. The Side feed is somewhere in the middle.
The main benefit of the side feed is that you can rotate the cup and use the airbrush pointing straight down, as it was originally designed for photo retouching. Another benefit is sight line, as the cup is off to one side. The balance is quite good as well. Note that the cup is right or left handed. If you do purchase, make sure you get the one suited for your preference. Email first and ask!
Please, I have never said that “all airbrush” are the same, only that we shouldn’t get caught up in specifications and presume that a small nozzle size is a sign of a good airbrush, or is more capable of spraying a fine line. As you said, for 99% of the modelers any airbrush is good enough!
Please go and re-read the article I linked to, three of the airbrushes are Iwata: BCS, HP-CS and a Micron B, with the fourth being a SATA (completely unknown to me, but fairly pricy). Not a cheap knock off in the bunch. The thrust of the article was that a $90 BCS or a $120 HP-CS are equal to a $375 Micron B. You can buy a compressor, a kit and all the paints and the supplies for the difference.
What does matter is practice, practice, practice!
I’ve never recommended the cheap knockoff airbrushes, and never will. But I do, and will continue to, recommend buying a $75 airbrush over a $120, as many modelers are on lean budgets. However, in the interest of fairness I often point out the range. I lean towards Badger (and with some judicious shopping you can get one of their excellent airbrushes for under $50), but have also offered up Iwata and Paasche as alternatives.
Harder steel makes zero difference to an airbrush’s operation. The Iwata uses a “harder” steel because they emphasize a narrow diameter needle, which makes them far more likely to get damaged during manufacturing and handling. Small nozzle size can affect overspray, which can assist in fine line spraying, but that has as much, or more, to do with air pressure. Longer taper allows for slower transition between less and more, which can also assist in fine line, but neither dictate the fineness of the line. Polishing a needle reduces clogging, which can also cut back on over spray, but a polished needle isn’t any more capable of a fine line than an unpolished one. It is a balance between paint viscosity & thinness, air pressure and air flow that makes the biggest differences. But far more important is the user practicing their craft.
Is there a difference between a HP-CS and a Patriot? Sure there is. According to Dixie Art around $45! The longer taper of the HP-CS makes it easy to control the line width transition compared to the “new head” double taper of the Patriot. I’m not a fan of the design and prefer the older 100 series head (I’ve only used a 175 for comparison, the transition between no paint and WHOA PAINT is short!). The Omni and Vega have a longer taper still, but I prefer the trigger action on the 100LG. But those are personal preferences, and make little difference in performance.
However, it can make a huge difference in use. Performance and use not being the same thing. If you are happier using the HP-CS, then you are far more likely to use it, and therefore will become more proficient through practice. And that is what is truly important. An airbrush, no matter how expensive, or well built, or finely engineered, is completely devoid of lifting itself out of it’s box, and spraying a line. It takes a user to do that. And I’ve seen people use the “lowly” Paasche H that easily put my best work to shame.
Thanks for pointing that out. You do have to dig to get that information, and it’s inconsistent, but I stand corrected.
Many resellers offer the information, but not all manufacturers list it on their websites, most show nozzle size. I think that line width is a better comparison than nozzle size.
By the way, in an internal mix airbrush, the air and paint do not mix inside the brush, unless you consider the tip of the needle as inside. See my pages on Basic Stuff and Spray Pattern.
My experience from using the Badger Velocity with the .21 mm, then switching to a .35 mm was that it was easier to spray a fine line with the thinner needle. I could spray a thin line with the .35mm. But it took far more efforts.
I also noticed that the brush that professionals use for their most detailed work also have very thin needles. Down to .18mm.
But of course, a lot more things goes into a fine line other than the needle. One needs consistent low pressure, quality paint, the right mix of paint thinner, and a fine nozzle to match. And low pressure works best on gravity feeds.
But if all those other things were to remain constant, then in my opinion, thin needles do make finer lines. Not that the thicker needles can’t. But it’s just easier with thinner needles.
You are the first person that I heard saying that Iwata needle is “far more likely to get damaged”. I presume that it is compared to the Badger and Paasche needles. [:O]
I visit several airbrush sites and some UK modeling sites regularly, though not as often as I do here. I believe that the Iwata needle has the reputation UNIVERSALLY of being most less likely to be damaged among the popular brands. For example, the airbrushtech.com is one where I saw Don Wheeler and MikeV posts now and then. You can do a search there on needle damage and see for yourself.
I have no statistics to back up those observations that Iwata needle is most durable. It does feel more springy than some other makes. Some may argue that the springiness does not matter if one is careful. [*-)]
Brickshooter, I’m not disputing that. Thinner nozzles reduce over spray, and less over spray will equate less “fuzzy” spray and therefore finer lines, but the nozzle size does not dictate the thinness of the line, it just makes it easier to accomplish.
Airbrushes are tools, nothing more, and using the appropriate tool makes the job easier. For example, I can hang a picture using an 8 oz. hammer, or a 16 oz. hammer, and the results will be the same. But I don’t want to try to hammer a 4" nail into a 6"x6" post using the smaller hammer. I could probably do it, but it would be much harder and take far longer to do the job. In fact, I would probably want a 20 oz. hammer! But you might not want to have three hammers, and don’t hang a lot of pictures, or hammer a lot of long nails into big posts, so I recommend a hammer that can do both, rather than special hammers to do each specific job. In reality, I do have more than one hammer, just like I have more than one airbrush, but 95% of the time I use my 100LG and my 16 oz. Stanley.
If I was retouching photos, or doing photo realistic art, i would want the smallest needle with the longest taper, but I’m not doing that. I’m painting models. One day I’m putting on a single color on a car body and want as broad a pattern as possible, and another day I might be spraying smoke ring camo that’s 1/8" thick. So I look for an airbrush that can spray as fine and as wide as possible. The typical modeler needs 1/8" to 1", and just about any internal mix airbrush can supply that. Heck, the Badger 350 with a fine nozzle can do that!
My main point is that nozzle size is not the be all measurement for an airbrush’s capability, and you are better off choosing a make and model that fits your budget and have good availability of parts, more than anything else.
Note that I put during manufacturing before handling. Thin steel parts gets damaged more than thick steel parts, and to argue otherwise is disingenuous.
I think the main reason why you don’t hear people on airbrush forums complain about needle durability is the typical person who invests their money in a “high end” airbrush is also the kind of user that takes care of their tools. I have four airbrushes that use needles, and one is a “fine” needle, and I have spares for all of them, and I have yet to use any of the spares. But I also realize that I’m not perfect, and I could drop a needle. Murphy’s law dictates that it will land on the sharp end, not the blunt, and will get damaged. I may not be perfect, but I am prudent!
I just did a search on the website you linked to, and used “needle durability” and “damaged needles” as search terms and came up with zip. Almost all references I’ve ever seen in reference to damaged needles were due to mishandling of the needle, with dropping it being the number one culprit. Tips get split, there was even a person here on FSM that was constantly breaking the tip on his Iwata awhile back, who was ‘tapping’ the needle home, but needle damage is really not a concern. Needles just don’t get damaged during normal use. A harder steel needle is of limited benefit to the average airbrush user.
Kei, you’re an engineer, and are probably happiest measuring things in microns and nanoseconds. I’m not, and am happiest just building kits. Airbrushes are a tool I use to accomplish that.And that reminds me of a true story:
I work in printing, and once had a client who owned a resort who complained that the brochures he bought were ‘cracking’ on the folds. This is a common problem, and can be reduced by scoring the paper first, and we had offered that option to him, but as it was an additional cost he turned it down. Still he wasn’t happy and he came to the shop to complain. I patiently showed him the process, and showed him samples of brochures that were and were not scored to educate him. While talking to him I noticed he had an accent, and correctly deduced he was Swiss, and so I asked him how he ended up in Canada. Turns out he spent 30 years as an engineer and retired to Canada and decided a resort was a good retirement job. I said “So you’re a Swiss engineer, and you expect me to make you happy?” and he laughed and laughed. After that, he realized that the only person in the world that even saw the cracking were the two of us, and it was only visible when you held a bunch of them in your hand. He admitted that not one client made a comment about it, and that the cracks on the fold really didn’t detract from the purpose of the brochure, which was showcasing his resort.
And so it is with airbrushes. It really doesn’t matter what airbrush a person uses, as long as they use it.
My point is that the design (material and shape) of an airbrush needle matters and has a overwhelming impact on the characteristic and performance of an airbrush.
All airbrush pages on books, internet or encyclopedia define “internal mix airbrush” as one where the paint and air mix inside the airbrush (in the tip) creating a finer atomized “mist” of paint. (Words copied from Wiki) I know that the head of an internal mix airbrush has the needle, the nozzle and a nozzle head cover (different name by different brand). Below is a cutaway picture of an airbrush from Zsolt. Can you use it to explain why you say:
in an internal mix airbrush, the air and paint do not mix inside the brush
I always thought “internal” means “inside”. [;)] I have three books on the topic of airbrushing. There are an airbrushing chapter in many modeling books (and I have about 6 of these). And of course, the many articles in the pages of FSM. Here are the words from Badger:
INTERNAL MIX indicates that air and paint mix inside the airbrush, producing a thoroughly atomized “fine dot” spray pattern.
“As an engineer”, I know that making “thick steel parts” is cheaper, but the resultant short taper needle also does not work as well as the long taper needle that has thinner steel and is more expensive to make. Also, they NEED better steel to make the taper long needle. As an airbrush user, I am drawn to the airbrush with a longer taper design.
Try this link. And there are many more. And I am NOT responsible for what they said.
What in H-E-double hockey sticks is that guy doing to go through “a mess” of Badger needles? In five years and four airbrushes, I’ve never replaced ONE!
But we are getting off target. The thrust of the article I linked to showed, quite clearly, that between a $90 .5mm Iwata BCS, a $120 .35mm Iwata HP-CS and a $375.18mm Iwata Micron B, there is no difference appreciable difference in line thickness.
Whether or not ham fisted users can bend needles is moot.
Taper is a far better measurement of an airbrush, but that is also one of the hardest specifications to find. You should try the Velocity, it has an extremely long taper.
