The photos of Greif are dated 1942 in the Bundesarchiv, so I’d suggest XF-93, the 1942 color.
Not sure i would agree with that. If the darker colour is indeed Pz Grey, thats means it was an early arrival in Africa. Being a Corps HQ vehicle, it would have a longer life expectancy that one with a front line fighting unit. I’m not sure what the Tamiya colours are for the 1941 colours, but going off what Charley posted above, it would be the XF-92, with a good cover of dust and mud.
Right, i’ll try this image again.
Greif was originally Dark Gray. The desert color used is RAL 8000 which was sprayed over 2/3 of the vehicle. The remaining 1/3 was supposed to be RAL 7008, however with shortages of paint, it appears the 7008 was never applied.
RAL 8000 is in actuallity quite a dark color. That was the plan, the darker color wouldn’t look so dark in the intense sunlight and allow better concealment.
Google “Bovington Tiger” for a good color reference of RAL 8000/7008. Tamiya Desert Yellow is not correct out of the bottle. If used out of the bottle as RAL 8000, don’t lighten it at all. It can be used though, as it is the closest unaltered Tamiya color.
Other manufacturers offer more correct RAL shades.
I only use Tamiya mixes, based on Starmer’s research, for my RAL Tropen colors.
Is there somewhere I can go to see these mixes you speak of? I’m a Tamiya paint mixing fool for RLM colors and I don’t mind mixing at all… especially since I can’t find the two Tamiya DAK colors I mentioned above.
As for what manufacturers make good shades of these colors, who do you recommend? If there was something that one could use Tamiya X-20A to mix with and have no more odor than Tmiya, I am open to trying them out.
Great phot, and interesting question about the color on the back of the shield. It could be grey, and would certainly add another interesting bit to the overall project.
I cannot immediately find my reference however,
RAL 8000 is a 50/50 mix of Dark Yellow XF-60 and Flat Earth XF-52. To that add drops of Yellow Green, XF-4 until you get a golden brown color with a twinge of green.
RAL 7008 is Tamiya Khaki-XF-49 with a few drops of Tamiya OD XF-62. To that I add some drops of Yellow Green and Medium Gray XF-20 until I get a khaki green color that, if viewed alone, is slightly gray. The two colors should be close in tonal value, meaning there is little contrast between them. That is why two colors are hard to discern in period B/W photos. Add dust to that and for decades no one realized there were two colors.
I always use Mr Color Thinner or Mr Color Leveling Thinner with my Tamiya paints. My go to after that is Tamiya Lacquer Thinner.
I’m living in a really dry area and those give me my best results. XF-20a allows the paint to dry too fast here in the desert.
As far as alternatives to Tamiya, I have used the Lifecolor sets with mixed results. The colors are accurate. They never want to spray tight patterns for me using their thinner. I never used any other thinner with them as I could get by with what I had.
MM Enamels were pretty good in the RAL 8000/7008 combo. Their RAL 8020 was ok accuracy wise but the 7027 was way off the mark. 7027 is a pale gray green not a pale gray brown. It is a shame the colors were discontinued.
I have not used anything else except MMP and I don’t like them at all. Accuracy is “off” as far as I’m concerned and again, they don’t perform well for me here in a dry climate.
WHAT!?! It wasn’t bright gold with chrome hubcaps???
Sorry guys, this conversation is getting waaaay too serious. It needs a little levity! [:P]
[y]
This thread is far from “serious”. It is up to the individual modeler to decide how in depth they wish to go.
In fact, this thread is a good start as reference for beginners.
A gold Rommel’s Rod though, now that’s a statement.
Bish’s second photo is fascinating on several levels. Like domparing the dark of the overhang, or of the Feldgrau uniform, compared to the back of the gun shield.
Mind, there the vexing question of that bag which is seen so often on Greif’s port side.
It’s not a “bread bag” as the straps are too long. Which makes a perons wonder if it’s British or Italian kit.
Greif is a stark contrast to Patton’s staff car. If eerily similar in some ways.
Bish’s first and second photo are of a sequence of shots. That is not a continental Field Gray uniform, that is a new issue tropical uniform that just hasn’t faded yet.
Greif’s greatest mystery though, why is the name in white outline on one side and red filled inside the white on the other?
Mac, i am not 100% sure, but i think thats a German issue back pack.
That is an odd one and something i think many modelers miss. But Stik’s photo’s show it perfectly.
Hmm, an Alpine or Bergetruppen, perhaps? I have this memory that the Tournister had a fur-covered flap, and thin-ish leather straps. And not what, in photos seems to be a fabric bag with fabric straps.
I’m running off memory here, and memories can be quite faulty, so I could be clean wrong.
Just one more of those historical inconsistencies that vex, like solid letters and outlined letters. Or whether Arizona was blue or gray on 7DEC41 o_O
Or just what color Dunkelgelb really was [:)]
Its not a Gebirgsjäger ruck. Those have two or three external pockets, dpepenting upon the type. That pack almost looks like the larger pack off of the British P37 web gear. I have no idea as to any Italian field gear of that sort.
And, that fits in with the dude wwho used the British goggles as thet fit better, too, sort of thinking.
What I know about Italian LBE would fit in a thimble and leave room for a fingertip.
Shared knowledge is increased knowledge.