I sort of did this piecemeal in another forum but thought I’d re-ask the question here: I’m starting a WWII tank collection with a theme of the most important allied tanks vs the most important axis tanks -‘important’ not best.I’ve been thinkg on the lines of:
Britain’s Matilda vs Panzer III (or maybe an Italian tank)
US Sherman againt a Panzer IV
Russian T-34 43/76 vs early Panzer V
I know Panzer IV’s would be most appropriate axis adversary for all allied tanks but I wanted to do a little variety. What are your opinions of important tank vs tank scenarios?
JSU-152 vs Panther or Tiger (The JSU-152 was nicknamed the "Animal Killer because of its ability to penetrate the frontal armor on Panthers and Tigers)
King Tiger vs M3 Stuart (just to be silly and for that overkill effect…lol)
KV I vs Tiger I
Sherman vs Panther or Tiger I
T-34/76 vs Panzer IV or Panther or Tiger I
Stalin 2 vs King Tiger
Grant vs Panzer III & IV
Stalin 3 vs Maus or E100(hypothetical!)
Too many! [:p]
“It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it.”-R.E.Lee
some of mine
Firefly vs Tiger 1
Comet Vs Panther G
Super Pershing Vs Kingtiger
Maus Vs Battleship or Typhoon
Sherman Vs little Japanese tank found on the rear decking of the sherman
Chaffee Vs M46
Chaffee or Easy 8 Sherman vs T-34
Sherman Firefly vs Panther
Matilda vs PzKfw III
M-48 vs M-48 (India vs Pakistan)
M1A1 vs T-62
M-47 vs T-54 (ARVN vs PAVN)
there are others [8D][:D][8D][:D][8D]
Depends what you call “important”. It seems the thread is leaning toward comparable vehicles, so here is my 2 cents worth.
Recce was/is a very important part of battlefield tactics, so you could go a little smaller and a bit more diverse. Seeing as you asked for tanks, say:
Panzer 2 vs BT 7
Panzer 2 Luchs vs M3 or M5
Or you could go Armoured Cars, say:
SdKfz 222 vs BA 20 or M20;
SdKfz 223 vs Staghound ;or
SdKfz 234/2 vs M8 Greyhound
Or go the way of SP Artillery:
Priest or Bishop vs Wespe
Hummel vs M40 (when the kit becomes available)
Centaur IV vs Brummbar (or Sturmtiger for something a little beefier)
By ‘important’ I meant what tanks were used in critical battles and which tanks had critical roles against adversary tanks. What comes to mind are British Matlida’s against Panzer IIIs in north Africa.
It doesn’t get more classic IMO than Tiger I and Panthers vs T-34/76 and KV I’s at the Battle of Kursk, the largest tank battle in history. The Elefant gets special recognition for being unfairly associated with the German defeat. However, it played a smaller role.
“It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it.”-R.E.Lee
the Firefly vs the Tiger 1 was a biggie in Normandy (Wittman anyone)
plus the Sherman vs any German tank (as it was everywhere maybe even kursk)
Sherman with 76mm gun vs Panther (battle of the bulge)
is 2 vs Kingtiger seelow hights
M26 vs T34 in korea
M48 vs T54 in Siagon
M1A1 vs T72 Kuwait
centurians vs IS3s six day war?
Most Generals would tell you all battles are critical. LOL.
In theory, Tanks alone will not win a battle (look what happened to the Ferdinand’s at Kursk, and the diasterous start to the Panther’s career) and a battle is fought and won by the correct use of all one’s assets-infantry, artillery, intelligence, etc drop a few British Paratroops on an SS Panzer Division way behind the enemy lines and ask them how important intelligence is[:)].
However, I get what you mean. You want details of which tanks went face to face in the big slugfests of WW2.
The African Campaign ended up being the British throwing what they had in front of Rommel to slow him down, and then Rommel screaming for material support from Berlin to keep going as the British were reinforced. As we all know Berlin was a little preoccupied with Russia at the time, hence it became a campaign of two sides using what they had to their best advantage. Rommel’s troops and tanks were outnumbered 3 to one at the end, with the Americans landing and threatening to catch Rommel on two fronts and encirling him.
Given the make up of Rommels Tank forces, Panzer 3 vs Matilda/ M3 Grant / Crusader would be an option in lieu of the Panzer4.
After Operation Zitadelle (Citadel) tank duels were basically smaller skirmish affairs, as the Germans were a little more frugal with their equipment; Wittman’s tale being a classic example.
Any way you put it, choose any of the listed options above and you are going to have a mighty nice collection of models.
Well, it’s not WWII, and it’s not tank-on-tank combat, but I think we’d be remiss to neglect the futile yet valiant attempts made by M4A3E8 Shermans, M-24 Chaffees, M-41 Walker Bulldogs, and of course the Type 61, Type 74, and most recently, the Type 90 MBTs in their one-sided struggles against…GODZILLA!
I know, I know, ya’ll probably wanna keep this thread serious, but really, if you want to see some good references of all the above-mentioned vehicles, check out the Godzilla series of films.
And if you’re a Type 90 MBT fan, check out the last two Gamera flicks. More tanks than The History Channel and Discovery Channel combined!
Big G and friends is precisely where I got interested in armor. In fact, for me, the monster flix were the catalyst for my interests in all things military. Well, that and growing up on military bases around the US…
But back to WWII.
Anybody say Hetzer vs T-34?
Or Jagtiger vs a lot of Shermans? From waaaay on out?
Japan’s greatest action hero strikes again !
now that i think of it, maybe the seeds of my interest in armor have come to light… manga, anime and Gojira-san !
LOL !!!
frosty[:)]
Following the rules you gave us, my suggestions would be:
Normandy to Germany: StugIIIG vs. Sherman, as StugIII’s were probably the single most common German AFV the Allies faced after Normandy
Russian Campaign:
Early: T34(76) vs. early mark PzIII
Late: PzIVH or Panther vs. T-34(85)
Western Desert:
Grant vs. Panzer IIIJ (classic Tobruk face-off)
And give the Tigers a rest. Yes, they are cool, but they were few and far between on either front. StugIII’s, PzIV’s and, later, Panthers were far more important vehicles historically.
Kaiyodo’s 1/144 World Tank Museum series has addressed this very topic recently with its “Versus” series of tank two-packs.
Their choices of combatants:
Firefly vs Tiger I Late
JS-2m vs Tiger II
KV-IA vs Pzr IV H
T-34/85 vs Elefant
M4A1 Sherman vs Panther G
I’d suggest M26 Pershing (number 40, USA 30119850) of the 33rd Armored Rgt. knocking out a Tiger and Two Mk IV’s at Elsdorf. The Tiger had just taken on and knocked out “Fireball”, which was repaired, after taking several hits that would’ve killed a Sherman, and later returned to action.
a quote from the very new book Sherman Firefly by Mark Hayward. who has researched the firefly from all the archives
“the death of Wittmann has been in dispute over the years
with everything from 75mm tank gun fire, naval shells, rocket armed Typhoons, Allied heavy bombing, and a Firefly being held responsible. more recently it now seems to be agreed that Wittmann fell victim to the 17-pdr gun fired by trooper Joe Ekins of the Nottinghamshire Yeomantry (Number three troop, A Squadron)”
it also mentions a Firefly in the Books
Tiger 1 by Uwe Feist & Bruce Culver
Tiger Ace the life story of Michael Wittmann by Gary L Simpson
Tiger vol 3 by Tadeusz Melleman
Panzers in Normandy then and now by Eric Lefevre
Tiger 1 on the western front by Jean Restyn
Panzer Aces by Franz Kurowski
and the war diary of the Nottinghamshire Yeomantry
“Three Tiger VI reported moving towards A Squadron and were
brewed at 12:40, 12:47 and 12:52 hours all without loss”
i dont know any new books mentioning he was knocked out ny a Typhoon
Well this thread did me some good to, gave me some ideas for me and the wifes head to head builds. Hopefully be done with the current and starting to plan the next soon.