Hi All As I am puzzled about a specific aspect of the lockeed Starfighter F104C in the SEA camouflage scheme operating in Vietnam in the early part of this conflict I have a model of this aircraft representing a Vietnam based F-104 without the in-flight refuelling probe I would like to ask this question Can a F-104 based in Vietnam be representatively accurate without the in-flight refuelling probe ? Would this type of aircraft operate some missions without the probe ? thanks for your reply
Run an image search to confirm, but I don’t recall coming across any photos of F-104s in Vietnam without the IFR probe. I have run across a few photos of some in NMF without tip tanks, but none without the probe. I am building one now and did quite a bit of image searching beforehand.
thanks very much for your reply
The camo F-104C which operated w/ the 479TH TFW out of DA NANG in 1965 did have the air refueling probe.The early metal finish versions a year earlier did not.
Tail number-70927 U.S.A.F.on top of serial no.Nose camo also white under surfaces of aircraft.SEA camo.Missiles on wing tips and wing inboard fuel tanks.
The Metal finish versions operated escorts for in coming C-130 transports which were also in Metal finish .Short range missions.Two missions were made in the camo fuel probe w/tanks and missiles w/ success .But on the way back then had to refuel twice which caused concerns .The MIG-19 can out turn the starfighter.
Many concerns were brought up then the F-105 came in and out w/the Starfighter. Also the F-105 can fight w/the MIG’S.It takes a good pilot .I know because I have flown the F-105.I once tangled w/two f-4’s playing around and they did not stand a chance .I did the same w/an F-8.A Mig is a whole different small plane.
I read somewhere about how the Air Force used F-86Hs to simulate Mig-17s against the F-105 and devise tactics to use.
The photos are from Thailand .the big give away is the tail number and the AC Gray under the anti glare panel.1968 .They eventually went to (PRANG).
Not to be bullish about it but anyone can be wrong .I just want To say I was there and touched one of the aircraft no refueling probe on the ones I saw.Maybe they. Put or modified them before they went camo .Thats possible.
The only F-104 engagements w/success were w/-F-86 and Su-7 Fitter in the Pakistani -India war in 1971.one kill on each aircraft .Also on an Alise aircraft from India in the same war.
When I saw the F-104 in viet Nam I fell in love and wished I flown it on at least one Tac mission.It looked like a missile.
Taiwan used the F-104 successfully to down a few Chicom Migs as well.
Thanks for all your comments and pics
In support of silver I must admit that I have seen a pic of the F-104 in natural metal without the refuelling probe
That Strafighter was the one called Really George it had a very fancy livery and was based at George airbase
can someone second this ?
Wow, when flown w/ a good pilot it will do fine.Range was the problem.Also I found out that it done ok against Super Myster and Gnat.One incident a An Indian Gnat surrenders to a Starfighter and was forced to land at a Pakistani airfield.
F104, the probe was removable, so yes, I bet somebody could dig up a photo or two of that aircraft as described.
Silver, from what I have been able to find, the F-104 was indeed a good fighter when flown by a good pilot who knew how to exploit its’ strengths and not get drawn into a turning fight with a more agile opponent. Much like the Israelis learned how to do with their Mirage IIIs against the various Mig types and such of the Arab air forces they fought.
All this talk and reading about F-104s has me thinking now of running a 104 Group Build on here…
That’s great
never seen a 104 operational without the ifr probe. da nang 104’s have the grey nose and tail and intake cone so i dont know what silver is on about. i have seen 104’s without the probe in pics from home bases in canada and usa and also on altitude and speed test aircraft.
afaik the 104 only had a couple of kills in vietnam as the opposition gave up launching aircraft against them.
I have a question: What aircraft you have flown in Viet Nam and what year you have graduated the Air Force Academy?That was question no .2.