Greetings All.
Can anyone enlighten me on the colors of the roundels on US aircraft in the Great War?
They look [8)] like French Red and Royal Air Force Blue and white.
Any help is appreciated.
Celestialsphere
Melbourne, Australia
Go to the USAF Museum www.wpafb.com and click on history and then clickon whatever date/era your interested in.It wil give you pixs of lnsignia for tails, wings and fuselages.
celestialsphere;
which great war are you talking about?, WWI or WWII?, the colors for WWII to present is Insignia Blue FS 35044, Insignia Red FS31136, Insignia White FS 17875, and Insignia Yellow FS 33538 (borders on roundel circa 1942-3)
Hey jamesrgorey - www.wpafb.com = money circle. Not the USAF Museum
I am sure you meant http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum
I mean World War One.
I’m getting ready to paint a Special Hobby SPAD VIIc. Unfortunately the red circle on the roundels is too dark.
“The Official Monogram US Army Air Service & Air Corps Aircraft Color Guide, Vol. 1, 1908-1941,” is currently on sale at Squadron right now for less than half its list price of $52. I suggest all modelers of a/c of the period jump on this jewel, which is the final authority on these colors and markings, and includes several pages of actual paint chips to match your colors against. The Navy series of four books, which unfortunately I lost, is another must-have if you can get it. So far, Vol. 1 is the only one in the Air Force series. With their mixture of rare color and black and white photos, drawings, paintings and color renderings, these books are simply dazzling.
(I might add here that Monogram Publishing is no relation to the model kit maker. The publishing company puts out some of the finest research books on a/c you will find anywhere, and given that the UK has a monopoly on all the good aviation publishers, we should be proud of, and support Monogram. I only wish they would put their fantastic “Guide to Luftwaffe Colors and Camouflage” back in print. I lost it too, and would happily pay dearly for a new one.)
To answer the question:
It’s not easy, first of all, because this was the time when the Air Service was first experimenting with national insignia for the US airplanes in the Great War. At one point they even used a three-color stripe on the top right wing as national insignia!
But to the round ones: It doesn’t help you much that the three colors were orginally called flag white, flag red and flag blue. So, just eyeballing the paint chips, the flag blue is closer to our Navy sea blue (FS15042) than the insignia blue now used and adopted before WW II. Again, flag red is a darker version of the insignia red used since pre-WW II to today. And the flag white is, well, very white. Don’t assume that the red on your SPAD markings is too dark, because the flag red used at the time was not real bright. I wish it were easier to describe colors accurately using words, but it’s just not possible. And if I scanned the chips, I don’t know how true the reproduction would be. One thing to remember, though, is that at the time we were relying a lot on stocks of British paint, and you couldn’t go too wrong by copying their colors. Later in the war, we adopted the red “meatball” in the middle of the blue star, but for most of the war we followed the British and French example of a simple roundel and tail stripes. Generally, wherever you had the roundel, the aircraft also had coordinating rudder stripes.
If you are planning to paint these on a particular type, send me an email with the info on type, etc., and I’ll either scan you the relevant pages or look it up and send the info by email. This book also tells how big the roundel should be for each type, and where on the wing it should be painted. Some are surprisingly close together, making the wing look like it has a big pair of eyes.
TOM
grin
Usually when the “Great War” is capitalized, it means WWI. I’m not sure WWII was ever referred to as the Great War (capitalized or not) as that designation was already in use to describe the conflict from 1914-1918.
In fact, World War I was only called that after World War II was in the books.
Anyway, there’s some good information here at the beginning of the page, but Tom’s answer above is right on:
https://wrc.navair-rdte.navy.mil/warfighter_enc/History/misc/markings/markings.htm
The Soviets did call WWII the Great Patriotic War-- but that is the only reference to WWII I know of…
Thank you All, for your replies!
I think the roundels on the cover of Osprey Publishing’s “American Aces of World War 1”
is a good point to aim for. (Probably what the German aviators thought, as well!)
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/title_detail.php/title=S3756~ser=ACE
The 1/48th SPAD VIIc I’m building will probably be that of Capt Charles J. Biddle of 103rd Aero Squadron mid 1918 (with the Sioux Indian marking)
The other option is to try printing some decals of Capt William Thaw;
http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/w1/macspad7cpreview.htm
mmmmm decisions, decisions. 