My dad told me about photographing a U2 at Bien Hoa Air Base in '68 or '69. Of course he never saw those pics after he sent the negatives to be developed! Got me wanting to build a model of one. I have the 1/72 MPC kit in the stash. My questions are:
What variant would have flown out of Bien Hoa in 68 or 69? (C has been suggested)
Would there be any markings on the plane? (I kinda figured there wouldn’t)
Is the MPC kit any good? Any build suggestions?
any websites with vietnam U2 photos or any personal vietnam U2 photos?
I searched Dr. Google and didn’t get much so now I’m asking the experts! I appreciate any help you can give. I’m not looking to superdetail here, just a fun relatively accurate build of the bird dad saw. Thanks in advance!
There’s a forum member, ikar01, who posted a number of significant photos last November, taken at Korat AB. There were many good shots of F-111s, and one of a U2, which was black. He’s not been around since, unfortunately.
Yardbird to me seems to know the most about these among active posters.
Here are my own guesses:
They would not have flown out of Vietnam, rather out of Japan.
Yes
People seem to like the Testors/Italeri model. Edit: its 1/48
No doubt. I’m aware of at least one- they seem to be organized by squadron, wing or other organization. Search those.
Thanks for the info. If the U2 flew into Bien Hoa, wouldn’t it also have to fly out. Dad said the bird landed and was immediately moved to a hanger and the doors closed behind it. Hush, hush for sure, but they must have been operating out of there don’t you think. The following Wikipedia entry seems to back this up although I take Wikipedia info with a grain of salt till I can get another confirmation.
"In early 1964, the Strategic Air Command (SAC) sent a detachment of U-2s from the 4080th to South Vietnam for high-altitude reconnaissance missions over North Vietnam. On 5 April1965, U-2s from the 4028th SRS (Strategic Reconnaissance Squadron) took photos of SAM-2 sites near Hanoi and Haiphong harbor. On 11 February1966, the 4080th Wing was redesignated the 100th SRW and moved to Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona. The SRS detachment at Bien Hoa AB, South Vietnam, was redesignated the 349th SRS.[9]
The only loss of a U-2 during combat operations occurred on 8 October1966, when Major Leo Stewart, flying with the 349th Strategic Reconnaissance Squadron, developed mechanical problems high over North Vietnam. The U-2 managed to return to South Vietnam where Stewart ejected safely. The U-2 crashed near its base at Bien Hoa. In July 1970, the 349th SRS at Bien Hoa moved to Thailand and was redesignated the 99th SRS, and remained there until March 1976.[9]"
I’ll check the squadrons as you suggested. I was most interested in the correct variant and yu confirmed it is the U2C. Thanks again.
I looked through all of my U-2 references, and this is what I found:
"Warbird Tech"vol 16 U-2 Dragon Lady mentions USAF U-2R’s being deployed to Operating Location 20 (OL-20) at Bien Hoa in 1968, but no mention of individual markings or tail numbers.
“aerograph 3 Lockheed U-2” mentions a code name for OL-20 (Bien Hoa) as “Lucky Dragon”, then changed shortly after to “Trojan Horse” and finally “Giant Dragon”- might find references to those on Google.
This reference also mentions one aircraft by number, 56-6953. It was built as a U-2A but converted to a U-2C in 1968 for service with the 100th SRW stationed at Bien Hoa. The only photo I have of it shows it in black with the tail number “66953” in red. Here’s the photo I have:
The photo doesn’t say where it was taken, so I can’t be sure if this is how it would have looked in Vietnam in 1968-69. Quite possibly, the tail number could have been smaller and less visible as seen on other operational U-2’s. I hope that helps!
They were U2E’s according to this site and only 3 were sent by their account. Anyway, this definitely confirms that they were there. Great stuff! Thanks again!
Above and beyond, my friend! Thanks for the info. as you can see I was posting as you were writing. Looks like conflicting info on the model of U2 sent over, though. Seems like the consensus is U2C from most sources though. However, now I have at least one that says U2R and one that says U2E. what is the difference between the C and E, and R variants? Again, thanks for the help. Dad said she was black in 68 so it’s nice to get confirmation of that.
A U-2 at Bien Hoa: that’s a new one on me. But that’s probably true, as the U-2 wasn’t the big time recon plane at the time. I do know that there were SR-71 flights comming out of either Guam or Okinawa at least twice a week. Seems like I might have seen a U-2 in Thialand once or maybe even twice. I do know the SR-71s ran a route that went right down the China coast and right accross North Vietnam over into Loas, and then due south to who know’s where. Most recon up north was done by RF4’s and Mohawks.
The U-2C began operating out of Bien Hoa AB in 1964 under the code name Trojan Horse. In 1966 they were supplemented with a couple of U-2R aircraft. The aircraft operated out of Bien Hoa and then the unprocessed film was transferred by Army helicopter to Tan Son Nhut AB where it was processed and analysed by the Photo Interpreters. The processing and PI work was done at the SAC SARPF, (Strategic Air Relocatable Processing Facility). This was a bunch of modular trailer like things all hooked together. It was located just in back of the 12 RITS building and across the street from 7 Air Force Headquaters. The SARPF also processed the film from the Ryan Firebee drones, AQM-34 missions which were called Bumble Bug, (later Buffalo Hunter), missions. Most of those were ultra low level with a handful being high altitude.
In January of 1968, the SARPF project was shut down and returned to the US. The processing and readout of the imagery was transferred to the 12 RITS (Reconnaissance Intelligence Technical Squadron). About this same time, maybe a little earlier, the U-2Cs were returned to the US and the R models transferred to U-Tapao RTAFB. The entire SARPF program was manned on a TDY basis by personnel from the 9SRW, (9 Recon Tech Sqd), at Beale AFB, (the SR-71 folks).
The U-2A is the original U-2. Francis Gary Powers was flying one when he was shot down May 1, 1960 over Sverdlovsk, USSR. The B, C, D, E and F were all derivatives of the A, using the same basic airframe. The U-2R and later TR-1 were a much larger, but completely different airframe that looked like the small bird. The small U-2s originally had a J-57 engine, but later had the J-75. That made it quite a hot rod. It would get airborne in the first 2,000 feet of runway and be at 70,000 feet before it got to the far end. The U-2R started with the J-75 and a few years ago were re-engined with the General Electric F-118-GE-100 engines that were intended for the B-2. Those are now called U-2S
Three CIA A-12 Blackbirds operated out of Kadena Air Base, Okinawa in 1967 and early 1968. They were replaced by four SR-71s, which operated out of there until 1990. There were as many as two missions per day with the SR-71 during the height of Viet Nam. Most of the time about 1 mission per day, 2 out of 3 days. The SR-71 never operated out of Andersen AFB, Guam, nor any of the bases in Thailand. It did make emergency landings in Thailand on a few occasions.
This information is from personal experience as an imagery analyst and mission planner for the 9RTS from June 1965 until May 1977.
Glad to help, love the Dragon Lady so anything I can do to help to see another one built!
A little more info on the “E” model according to “Aerograph 3”-
The U-2E designation was applied to approximately 18 updated and improved U-2A’s and possibly several U-2B’s assigned to the Central Intelligence Agency. They differed from their predecessor configurations primarily in having advanced electronic countermeasures systems installed in the fuselage empennage section. They were heavier than previous configurations and had a slight performance degradation as a result.
Oh yeah, now thats what I’m talking about! I knew this was the place for good intel. Thanks so much for the help. So If I read your summary correctly, in 68-69 dad would have probably seen a U2R landing at Bein Hoa, correct? Also, any ideas on markings?
I used to get a big kick out of being debriefed after a recon patrol by those “imaginary” guys that “were not there”. There are a few of those imaginary guys that I have an occasional cold glass of milk with. They just call and/or show up, and afterward say “you did not see me”. And we never ventured into Laos or Cambodia.
In 69-70 I was stationed at Utapoe AB Thiland. We did have a U2 stationed there. We also had the drones. C130`s carried the drones & launched them. Acasionaly we would have an SR71 land there for maint. issues I emagin.
Yes. I think that all of the C models had been rotated out of SEA by 68-69. I never actually saw a U-2, either C or R in SEA because they were at Bien Hoa or U-Tapao and I was at Tan Son Nhut. I am fairly certain that they were overall flat black with a small, red serial number on the fin and maybe emergency rescue markings under the canopy. No other marks. That guess is based on the birds that I did see at Beale and other locations.
The U-2C flew out of the United Kingdom, (RAF Mildenhall, I think) in the mid to late 60s and the British were very sensitive about it. They didn’t want the black “spyplane” to be seen in their airspace. So, the USAF painted several of them in a two tone gray camo scheme. Eventually, they let us use the black ones and the R model has operated out of Mildenhall ever since.
These photos are of a couple of U-2s that I built several years ago. They are both 1/72 scale. The black & NMF one is a D model by Airfix and the camo is a C model by Academy. I built a 1/72 R model from Hobby Model that was all resin, but I dropped it right after I finished it and it broke into a gazillion pieces.
Good stuff! thanks for posting those builds as well. they look great! So it sounds as if I am at an impass as far as building a 1/72 U2R because I am not good enough for a resin kit yet. The U2R was significantly larger than the A,B, and C right? So no chance of converting the MPC kit I have. Do you know how accurate the Italeri 1/48 U2R is? Thanks again for the great info.
Trying to build an R model from the A or C would be about the same as trying to build a Super Hornet from a legacy Hornet kit. It just can’t be done. Testor’s has had a 1/48 C model on the market for 20 years or more. I built two of them for commission builds back in the early 80s. They are pretty good. I don’t know anything about the 1/48 Italeri R model. This photo will give you an idea of the comparative sizes. The C has an 80 ft span while the R has a 103 ft span.
Roger was building a 1/48 Italeri R which came with the turtle back looking antenna and it seemed to be a nice model. he’s unfortunately been gone for a little while, but you canperuse the SAC GB.
The second half of 1968 I was attached to an A team located about 40 miles east of the Laotian border. These guys used to speak of “real fast movers” making recon flights under a code name that was something like YZZflash something or another. I remember the recon flights every night from the Mohawks that had these huge pods hanging on the wings as they used the radio relay site for a vector to points only they knew. Anyway these guys often spoke of a recon flight that went by in a “blink of an eye!” I guess these flights drove the Chinese nuts, but as I said we never actually saw them. But we did see photos; lots of them from just north of Kamduc to the DMZ. RF4’s were mostly in country recon, and the Mohawks roamed the Ho Chi Mien Trail every night, and fed data in real time to SOG units. Mohawks had some wierd code name of “Sniffers,” and their data was extremely reliable. I never knew they used drones in RVN! But that made a lot of sense.
Darwin is right, trying to build an “R” out of a “C” would be next to impossible. It would take extensive scratchbuilding, and fabrication. Wings are differetn, fuselage is different, etc.
I have both the “C” and the “R”, as well as the TR-1. Detail and fit seem to be about the same as the old Testors “C”, not great but then again- the only game in town! Meteor Productions has a pretty large selection of resin upgrades for all of the U-2’s such as cockpit sets, intakes/exhausts, wheel bays, nose upgrade, as well as some decals. HTH!
Over the years that Viet Nam was “hot”, there were quite a few different reconnaissance and intelligence gathering platforms running around in country and up north. Most of them were highly classified and any information from or about them was on a strict “need to know” basis.
The SR-71 was undoubtedly the fastest of the bunch at approximately 2,000 mph. They were operated by Strategic Air Command under the code name Giant Scale and flew most missions with the hot area over the North. They only flew over the south to get repositioned for another run up north. They maintained strict radio silence and were high and fast enough that nobody on the ground would even know that they were there.
The RF-101 and RF-4s were operated by Tactical Air Command and flew both North and South, some at fairly low level and some quite a bit higher. The data that they collected wasn’t quite as close hold as Giant Scale, but still was classified.
The U-2s were operated by SAC and flew some North missions early on, but were prohibited from flying North after the NVA started deploying SA-2 SAMs. After that, they flew mostly Laos and Cambodia missions.
The Ryan Firebee drones flew mostly North missions, especially when we were not bombing up there. They were also operated by SAC.
There were several other USAF ops that I didn’t know much about, such as Igloo White where they dropped acoustic sensors all over the logistic routes trying to keep track of truck traffic.
I don’t know anything at all about the Navy and Army recce efforts.
