Can a krupp 1.5 ton or a horch la tow a 88mm 41/43 PAK? or mostly they use a half track 251/1 or sdkfz 7 or 8 ?
I believe the only vehicle big enough to pull the 88 was the Famo. It was the Prime Mover for the 88.
Opps maybe it confuse you all … i refer to the 88mm pak 43/41 the late stage 88 on howitzer wheels.
FAMO could definitely be used, but the SdKfz 7 was the most common prime mover for the various 88s.
The FAMO was usually reserved for the really heavy duty jobs. The SdKfz 7 could haul the 88s, so usually did. If the Germans wanted to mount the 88 on a prime mover, it would definitely be the FAMO.
LeopardIIIA6, I don’t think the smaller movers could haul the 88 PAK. It was very large and very heavy. Maybe in a pinch, but certainly not ideal.
I think the 251 could be used to move the Pak 41/43, but they were most commonly seen with 75mm Pak 40s.
The 251 is based on the SdKfz 7 chassis, which was used for the 88 mm Flak 18, 36, and 37,150mm sFH 18, and 105 mm K18. That being said…I’m not sure a Pak41/43 weighs more than a 150mm sFH 18…
Maybe the reason I’m not seeing 251s towing Pak 41/43 is because of the additional weight from the added armor?
I do know for sure that the SdKfz 10 or the 250 is way too small to pull the Pak 41/43.
The SdKfz 11 was not designed to tow the Pak 41/43, being restricted to the 105 mm leFH 18 field howitzer, 75 mm Pak 40 anti-tank gun and 37 mm Flak 36 and 37, but they did tow them late in the war when the need for prime movers was critical.
That’s all I know without getting into the books…
Jeff
No, I believe the FAMO was not the prime mover for the 88mm. I do believe it was the Sd.Kfz 7, at least for the Flak gun.
Here’s a pic of one pulling a PAK
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!
Lots of confusing info has been posted. Let me give you what I know:
The SdKfz 10 (1 tonner) hauled around light stuff like the iG18 75mm, Pak 36s or light flak guns. In a pinch it could haul 5cm or even the heavier Pak 40. (The Sdkfz 250 series shares this chassis)
Next came the SdKfz 11 (3 ton). The SdKfz 251 shares its chassis with the SdKfz 11, and not the SdKfz 7 (rated at 8 tons). The Sdkfz 11 (and sometimes the 251) were the vehicles tasked to haul the Pak 40 75mm , Pak 39 5cm, leFH18 10.5cm and sIG 33, 37mm Flak guns and nebelwerfers.
Then the SdKfz 6 (5 ton) was developed intended to haul the leFH18 10.5cm.
The SdKfz 7 (8 tons) was developed to haul the 8.8cm Flak guns. Other weapons like the Pak 43, Pak 43/41, sFH18 15cm howitzer and other weapons in this weight class were hauled by the “Krauss Maffai” Sdkfz 7.
The SWS can be placed next. A relative late comer, its capacities were similar to the Sdkfz 7, along with its loads.
Next was the SdKfz 8 (12 tons). It could haul all the weapons listed for the SdKfz 7 as well as some heavier pieces.
Finally, the SdKfz 12, commonly referred to as the “FAMO” was rated to haul 18 tons plus. It was developed as a tank hauler with the duty as a heavy artillery prime mover a very very low priority. It was used a TINY bit to move 24cm morsers. (There weren’t many of them BTW)
To answer the original question, the SdKfz 7 and SdKfz 8 and SWS were the prime candidates for the Pak 43/41. The FAMO would be overkill, and the others would be at a severe overrating to haul the Pak 43/41.
Zokissma: The Sdkfz 7 you have pictured there is hauling the K18 10cm gun, a sister to the sFH18 15cm howitzer. The 10cm gun wasn’t a PAK but a conventional heavy field artillery piece. Its gun tube was very long. In the picture, you see that its tube is very far back on its cradle; out of battery. This was done to shorten the overall length of the weapon in travelling mode.
/Thanks for the info, learnt something new [:)]
This is why I stick to US subjects. Way to many variables and vehicle types with German WWII stuff. All the different naming conventions of vehicles, Artillery/Anti- Tank/AA guns (which one gun could have been either, depending when/where it was used) and such (SdKfz, Pak, Flak, Howitzer, etc., etc.) are way too confusing for me. To me, the vehicle in the pic posted by Zokissma looks like a FAMO, that is what I pictured. Oh well, I’ll stick to answering questions about US subjects from now on. Thanks for clearing it all up and reinforcing my dislike of German WWII subjects.
Hey Jeff, the SdKfz 251 was actually the APC version of the SdKfz 11 chassis, which was a bit smaller than the SdKfz 7. They do look alike though.
I like the German halftracks. I actually like them more than the German tanks. They are really handsome vehicles.
[(-D]
I would dare to guess if you had a team of clydesdale horses ,in sufficient #'s, they could tow an 88 as well .
haha … so can a opel biltz truck tow that 88mm 43/41 ?
Clydesdales, nah…you want a team of shires…lol!!! ive built a 88 flak 36 on the back of a famo, would that be technically correct? or would it need to be a sdkfz 7?
I look at it from the view that if a vehicle could tow something without wrecking the drivetrain, it could tow the equipment. Yes, there were certain vehicles designed and designated to carry x artillery and y trailer, but since no one knows for certain what was towed by what in the field, I think anything (or nearly anythnig) goes. I certainly don’t think that during a retreat, the Germans sat around saying “oh, we can’t tow that cannon because we don’t have the proper vehicle to tow it” Get it out by whatever means and vehicles necessary!
This is true…but…being a 1:1 (M35A2 and a 1943 M3 halftrack) vehicle owner, I can attest to the following…
My M35A2 had no trouble pulling a 105mm howitzer around, but it sure grunted and groaned when I hooked onto a 155mm (museum pieces, btw). When you consider that’s basically for shows and parades, and not in a cross-country or combat environment, I can understand the reluctance to hook onto something that you’re not supposed to be pulling.
Larry, I picked up on the 10 vs. 11 thing after you posted it, and you’re right…what’s odd, is that I have a Sovereign 2000 resin kit of the 11 and I actually compared the 251 chassis to it awhile ago… Just chalk it up to brain cell loss…
Jeff
The Famos were left mostly to the Tiger Batallions. I seen an 88Pak43 being pulled by Horses, I Think it was in an old tamiya photo album.
Sdfkz 7 would most definitly pull one. So would a SWS. Possibly a Sdkfz11, but remember it was a complete pig to tow.
Regards
Terry
P.S. I bought the AFV kit and was wondering the same thing. Its a beautiful kit.