Tiger I in Tunisia - the Right Color?

Okay, I’m told there is some debate as to what these vehicles were painted with. One guy says one thing, another guy something else. Were they camo’d with green? - some say yes, some say no. The debate rages on.

However, I don’t feel the need to get into the debate, nor do I want to be frozen by not knowing the PRECISE color. Close is good for me, as contrary to the purists as that may sound. After all, if no one really knows for sure - then close will have to do, won’t it?

Can anyone give a good FS-standard match for the trop brown and olive green painted on early Tigers in Tunisia, circa 1943?

If close is all that matters, pick any brown, tan or green that appeals to you.

I was thumbing through a concord book on DAK vehicles the other day and the author was talking about how some British reports said the vehicles were greenish color but also could have been a thin coat of tan over the original panzer gray which in certain light might look like greenish tan… Its a valid point but who knows…

Unless you can find a veteran and show him some color chips then your guess is probably as good as anyone elses… A pale tan or pale greenish tan could be a safe bet or the darker brown (afrika braun ) might be an option as well…

I remember reading that the Olive Drab that they painted their Tigers with was captured US stock–therefore, I’d use any old USA OD appropriate for WWII.

See my reply in a recent thread about DAK colors. Basically the Tiger at Bovington is restored up in the camo patterns as it appeared when captured. It was a medium green over a sand brown. The museum staff meticulously matched the pattern to known period photos of the Tiger and were careful to remove the layers of paint carefully to see where the camo pattern looked like. Go google “bovington tiger” and you’ll see what may be one of best restoration (as far as camo scheme) jobs extant

  1. Here’s what the folks at ‘Achtung Panzer’ have to say about it:

"In 1941, OKH ordered that vehicles in and destined for North Africa were to be painted in yellow brown/sand yellow (RAL 8000) as a base colour with grey green (RAL 7008) for camouflage patterns. Yellow brown was to be used to cover 75% of the vehicle and grey green the rest. In the field, vehicles were often applied with mud and even captured British paints (such is war).

In addition, starting in spring of 1942, vehicles used in the southern parts of Russia, were often applied with tropical camouflage, similar or identical to those used in North Africa. In March of 1942, both colours used in North Africa were replaced by brown (dark sand) (RAL 8020) and dark (panzer) grey (RAL 7021). Brown was to be used to cover 75% of the vehicle and dark grey the rest…

In February of 1943, by the order of OKH, dark grey was replaced by dark yellow (RAL 7028) as the base colour for all German vehicles."

  1. From the Squadron “Tiger In Action” book, Armor #27, pg. 17:

"The Tigers of sPzAbt 501, which depolyed to Africa in late 1942, were camoflaged in Desert Brown (RAL8020). Dark Gray (RAL 7027) was authorized to be used as a second color in a disruptive camoflage pattern, but there is no evidence that sPzAbt 501 ever painted their vehicles in this manner.

In the more temperate climates of coastal Tunisia, many of the tanks of sPzAbt 501 were overpsprayed with Olive Green (RAL 7008) to enhance their camouflage…

It is not known if any Tigers went to N. Africa painted in Dark Yellow (RAL 7028, also known as Wehrmacht Olive), which was specified for use as an overall basecoat on all combat and front line support vehicles during 1943 (in March, according to the first reference)."

SO, it seems that at least two references jibe on the base color, RAL 8020. Also noted are the Dark Gray (RAL 7027) and Olive Green (RAL 7008) counter colors, although the Tigers of sPzAbt 501 seemed to only use the green.

The back cover of the Squadron book shows a sPzAbt 501 Tiger in what I would call a true tan, as opposed to the more familiar Dark Yellow (RAL 7028). It also has the olive green counter shade.

So, there you have it. I guess…

In case there is someone besides me who hasn’t seen them before, the vids at YouTube of the Bovington Tiger are awesome and a must see. These were a first for me and I gotta say that the sight of a genuine Tiger I, fully restored and in operation, is chilling. Wooooweee, does it get better than that?? All hail Electro, God of the Internet.

Now, I wonder… is there is any 88mm ammo lying around to fire in the thing? THAT lends a whole new meaning to the term “plinking!!”

Thanks, Roy!

When I was planning to do My African Tiger ,I got in contact with Gerry Chester,who was a veteran of that campaign…We exchanged e-mails a few times and he told me that the two different abtielungs in africa were painted differently ,BUT as he told me you don’t forget the color of the first tiger you see on the battle field and he swears it was Green . So in his honor I did mine green .Here is his reponse to my posting on M-L

Hi Richard,

Thank you for setting my feet in the right direction - I did not realise “constructive comment” has a forum unto itlself.

You have done a magnificent job on your Tiger model. The green was a little darker - what the Germans called West European. Reading the comments, as obviously some folks do not believe that Tigers were painted green, I am going to post to try and settle the matter. A couple of years ago, when I first read about the so-called ‘myth’ I contacted chaps who, like myself, actually saw the many Tigers of sPzAbt.501 that were littering the Hunt’s Gap battlefield - they all confirmed dark green as being the colour they remembered.

To you and yours, all the best,

Gerry

and here what he was talking about .

Rick

Richard: did you know that Gerry Chester will be one of the guest speakers at the AMPS Internationals in Auburn IN next April?

Gerry was a wireless operator on 4-5 marks of the Churchill in N Africa and Italy.

I’ll have the honor of actually interviewing him and our two other special guests in front of our audience. Also on schedule are Mr. John Irwin, author of “Another River Another Town”, veteran of the 3AD and ex-gunner of the Super Pershing (look at my avatar!) and Mr. Wolfgang Kloth, tank commander in the 2PD and the Kurland pocket kampfgruppe, commander of Mk IIIs, Mk IVs and Sturmgeschutzen.

The great thing about these three tank veterans is that they have great technical knowledge of their tanks. It’s truly going to be a once in a lifetime opportuinity to hear a British, an American and a German tanker of WW2 recount their experiences, up close and personal.

Kinda far from home for a show ,but I envy you the chance to meet him personally . Such a nice and helpful man…His site is very interesting as well …

http://www.northirishhorse.org/

Rick

Thanks for the comments. Having the first hand accounts of vets is bound to instill some confidence! I would never have guessed that green was the color of any of the Tigers in N. Africa. None of the documented accounts nor the Wehrmachts own standards would imply that.

I guess you just never really know…

Bear in mind dahut, we’re talking about Tunisia specifically. I did a google search for Tunisian landscape (didn’t come up with much) to work out for myself why you would overpaint a tank with olive-green in a desert environment & like most of that western side of Africa, there is a lot of tropical vegetation extent. I am sure though, once that campaign was over, the crews would’ve applied the regulation 2/3rds yellow colour to their tanks, as they headed on to Alamein.

Hi dahut,

Here is a link to some Tigers I did a while back. One was an attempt to do a Tunisia Green Tiger.

I used Floquil S.P. Dark Lark Gray for the base coat and I’m sorry, I just don’t remember which green I used. It was one of the Floquil R.R. colors. I think it may have been Depot Olive or a Pullman Green. I tried applying a very splotchy looking green which allowed some of the gray to show through.

/forums/821179/ShowPost.aspx

Joe [:D][:D]

Shaun: the Tigers were transferred to Panzerarmee Afrika near the end of the entire African campaign to shore up the shrinking Axis foothold. There wasn’t any hope of “heading to Alamein” – those days were far behind.

D’oh. My bad[B)][:slight_smile:][D)]

Great builds on the link, Joe! Thanks! Now I know what kits to look out for. Youre awesome, dude!

Lemme say at this point that all this talk of green is nice and I appreciate the discussion. It seems that some African Tigers were, indeed, green. Ive heard here, now, that the Germans used captured American OD, too. But there is also the preponderence of evidence to support that most Tigers were not green at all - in fact, it’s the likeliest scenario from my research so far. Green examples surely were known, but the Germans pretty much adhered to standard whenever possible and green wasn’t specified.

Individual variation was common, of course, depending on locale, the man doing the mixing and painting of colors, paint availability and so on. This is why it’s okay to sort of do what you want and still be allright. But, unless forced to expediency, the Wehrmacht was, of course, German - and generally followed the guidelines.

I’ll likely only have one such Tiger, so I reckon I’ll do the same. To me, a desert Tiger oughta be, well, “deserty.” So it’s sand brown and green.

So, lets take the Bodington Tiger as our example. As I understand it, the thing was reverse engineered to a large degree during it’s rebuild, including the paint. It is supposedly as accurate, colorwise, as modern paint tech can make it. Captured in 1943 from the “other” African Tiger group, sPzAbt, 504, I believe it’s about as close to the real deal as I can get, so that shall serve as my “model,” if you will. Thankfully, thus ends any further worry on my part. KISS is my motto.

Of course, I’ll add the usual extras every in-theatre tank ends up festooned with. But for now, the Bodington Tiger will serve.

I just have to get a decent match to the RAL numbers with some of the common, modern paints available. Anybody got a reference for that?

…now this is an awesome thread for all us Tiger lovers…quality info in here

…how is the AMPS different from IPMS? I am primarily familair w/ IPMS Regional competitions—never been to a Nationals but want to go next year if possible…

Well, for what it is worth, here are some pics of the real deal courtesy of TIC 1:

I don’t see much evidence of a “cammo” patternin these B&W’s but, one can draw thier own conclusions?

SC

I don’t see much evidence of a “cammo” patternin these B&W’s but, one can draw thier own conclusions?

Good pics, SC. Did you note what look like a row of water-filled Jerry cans acrosss the top of the turret in pic #4? Cool!

Here’s some of the conclusions I’ve drawn so far.

There is much to support that camoflage was not applied at all in Tunisia, and where it was, it wasnt strongly disruptive. This was the beginning remember, the first of the Tiger deployments and encounters. The DAK/PK weren’t really fearful of other tanks once they got the Tiger into combat. Stories still circulate about the then-powerful French 75MM antitank guns that simply bounced off the Tiger’s hull…from 50 meters! Or the standard rule of the time that it took 5 Allied tanks to even slow a Tiger… if you could get close enough…which you couldn’t! This is partly where the Tiger’s aura of invincibility was born (No one had learned the major flaws in the design, yet).

So, from the DAK/PK’s viewpoint at the time, why would you need to get carried away with camo’ing an “invincible” tank? There just wasn’t a huge need to blend into the background, like there would be in later years. In all the pics of Tunisian campaign Tigers, there is very little done along these lines. The only exception was meaningful air attack, and I don’t believe the Allies had that well figured at that early stage. Planes armed with effective rockets and cannon were still in the future.

Factory issue color was Dark Gray (RAL 7027), remember, at this stage of the war. In fact, it was a recommended camo color, if youll recall. The Germans hadn’t gone to good old Dunkle Gelb yet. Some tanks were issued from the factory in theatre colors, and even in the Red-Oxide primer in use at teh time. But, most deploying units repainted their gray mounts in-theatre (or enroute), with supplied stocks of replacement theatre-specific base color, and whatever else was available, I suppose. This lends credence to the use of American OD paint, once the Yanks were scampering out of the way of the DAK/PK and the Krauts got their hands on it.

Besides, there were no set patterns for camouflage, anyway - that wouldn’t happen until 1944. The Germans were still on the offensive, and field units were simply authorized to use certain colors as needed. It was really quite arbitrary, even discretionary, and from what I can tell, rather cavalier. Those were heady times for the Wehrmacht.

Taking this BTT and my original post, here’s what I’ve come up with so far on the colors themselves. My butt is about tired from all the looking, “but” I finally found some useful color references for the rather obscure, early DAK/PK RAL colors:

RAL 8020 - Very close to the Bodington example, what I would call a “caramel-like” tan.

RAL7008 - Similar to the Bodington example, what I would call a dark khaki-brown/green. Similar to a well thinned American OD.

In this case, both the Bodington Tiger and the back cover of the Squadron book look pretty danged close.

Dang. Replying just to make sure that I have a link saved to this thread in ‘my forums’. [;)]

Can’t believe how much info is available out there, and how you guys all seem to know where it is!