A few quick questions for the Tiger experts:
1.) #312 of Pz.Abt. 502, Panzer Grey or camo?
2.) Was it in Tarnopol?
3.) I have seen quite a few photos of killed Tigers resting on their bellies with the main out of elevation, knocking out hydraulic pressure seems to kill the suspension. Is this the case?
Thank You
Svenne
Sagging suspension is usually caused by fire.Were the vehicles burned out?
Nope, example pics have been posted on Armoursite:
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm
4 of the Tigers sit on their bellies with collapsed suspension.
I can see what you meen, if they where burnt out the heat could have caused the torsion bars to disforme under the heat and weight, but that is not what the pictures suggest.
VBR
Svenne
Interesting question. I looked over the pics in your link and the Tigers don’t show any evidence of fire externally. Would the heat from just an internal fire cause the suspension to give out like that? Interesting…
Neither the Tiger 1 or Tiger II were supported by hydraulics. [:O]
Each road wheel was attached to a torsion bar. [^]
(which is basically a large linear spring) [tup]
Other than sitting there [:o)] for a 100 years, there
could be no other explanation [2c] for the suspension failure.
The DML Tiger kit has working torsion bars just like the real thing.
The chrysler division [^] muscle cars (and passenger cars) of the sixties,
(front end suspension) were supported by torsion bars in the same manner.
Steve
a torsion bar won’t melt or sag, but an extreme impact (incuding explosion I would imagine) could cause them to crack and break-- especially if impacted lenthwise-- i have seem this happen at the shop where i work in automobiles with torsion bars (when they get in an accident)-- they are a springy and resiliant when twisted,but fragile when compressed longitudinally— treadwell
Torsion bar failure is common on vehicles, even today. I am a former Bradley commander, and I’ve short tracked a few due to torsion bar failures. Usually they fail from jumping obsticals at speed. When they do let go, there is no doubt about what happened. They will also fail from the heat of fires, but generally damage from a fire that hot is noticable outside the vehicle as well. Brad
Unfortunately, I’m on the road, on our way to Yellowstone NP, otherwise I would have chimed in earlier. Without my books, I’m going to have to wing it answering questions here. Schwere Panzer Abteilung 502 operated in northern Russia as I recall. I don’t think they were in Tarnopol. A quick look in Tiger I on the Eastern Front, should give the zones of operation for the 502nd. Here again, without my books, I’m going out on a limb here, but I believe 3rd company would be sporting a scheme of rather diffuse, large green “snakes” over dark yellow at this time.
Fire or explosion, breaking or weakening the torsion bars, is the only way I know of to trash a Tiger’s suspension.
I hope I’m not taking this thread too far off topic… but I’m curious exactly what and how Torsion bars work. Anyone have a clear, big picture explaination? [?] I’d like to understand how they work so the issues mentioned above will make sense to me (heat and impact causing them to fail). If it’s too far off topic, we can move to a new thread.
Each of a Tiger’s (and many other AFVs) road wheels are attached to a torsion arm, a sort of Z shaped arm, which is then attached to the torsion bar. The torsion bar is a long, spring steel bar, which lays flat against the belly plate of the tank and runs from one side of the tank to the other. The far end of the torsion bar is fixed, while the entire length of the bar and arm is allowed to rotate. As a load is applied to the suspension, the torsion arm twists the torsion bar. The torsion bar resists the torque applied to it from the torsion arm and forces the torsion arm back to it’s original position. If you are familiar with an old VW beetle’s front end suspension, it works the same way.
If the tank catches fire, the heat can detemper the torsion bars, causing them to loose their ability to resist the torque applied to them, (or break) and the suspension collapses. Internal explosions can simply break the torsion bars, the end result is the same.
Hope this makes sense!
Totally makes sense, thanks for explaining that. [:)]
It has to be heat or the torsion bar being torn out of its opposite side mount by explosion.
The pictures I was referring to where:
“Tiger I disabled by a side penetration” The track is cut so this is probably my imagination only.
“Tiger I, late model, destroyed. , 1944” The preceding text suggest that hits in the running gear could tear away the suspension arms, I guess that such a hit also could tear out the torsion bar.
“PzKpfw VI Tiger I, of the s.SS.PzAbt.101 - Late Model - , 1944, destroyed”
Again, the track is torn so this could be both of the above.
“The Last Stand, late 1944”. The black hatches would suggests that this vehicle was burnt out.
Anyway, thank you Kikeon and all for your help on this.
My mind was set to the front shock absorbers being knocked out or the idler wheel loosing power to tension the track, but this is a dead track, my mistake, thanks for sorting me out 
Svenne