We all know of the B-25, starting out its carear as a medium bomber and ending it as a cold hearted stratfer gunship. The same was with the A 20 Havoc and the A/B-26 Invader. A medium/light bomber is the perfect canidate for this roll but has it ever been considered that something even more leathal could have been produced using an existing airframe, one that has proved itself a time after time and has become a legand that every aircraft enthusiast has come to know and love. Instead of one 75 millimeater cannon in the nose like the B-25G/H there might be a possiblility for two in addition to a barrage of 20 mill, and 50 cal guns, that arnt just mounted in the nose and on the side of the fuselage but also in the wings. The turrets of this monster could have 4 50 cals in the top turret, Standard ball turret, in the tail a 20 mill plus two 50 cals, and in the waist positions two 50 cals with a top turret in the radio gunners compartment… And in addition to all this a punishing bomb load. Well my friends for those of you who might have figured out what I am leading up to, you know of the havock this machine could rain down appon the enemy if the right person could design it. The ultimate strafer gunship an aircaft I like to call the Other B-17 Variant, or the one that was never concived the B-17I.
I plan to build this very aircraft, at first using a 1/72 B-17E to test my theory out and if all is succeful I will take it to the next level and build a 1/48 B-17 Strafer. using the Monogram G or Revell F kit, probably the Revell F because it is the closest to the E version Crazy? yes, possible? only time will tell.
Actually, the idea was thought of, just not to that extreme. Look up the YB-40. It was a heavy bomber escort. The idea being, pack it full of guns, stick it in the formation with the rest of the B-17s’ and then let the Luftwaffe come in and get a nice surprise. Going in to the target it worked just fine, the problems came after the regular b-17s’ dropped their bombs and dropped weight. Then the YB-40 couldn’t keep up with the formation because they still had all the weight from the guns and ammo. Your idea sounds like a good theory, but it would only work were there was total domination of the skies. Not trying to put a damper on your project, just wanted to let you know that it had been thought of. Keep us posted on your progress.
Your a nutcase after my own heart Vintage Aircraft I cant wait to see the pics.
That sounds like something I’d like to see. Keep us updated.
The buff is a plane I know a bit about, and the Yb-40, coulda, shoulda worked. It was the first to have the Chin turrent. The Yb-40 was made form the f model before the g was even a flicker of a thought. That chin turrent on all the g’s is a direct decendent of the '40. It’s radio compartment was moved and a second powered upper turret was placed there…2 upper turrets!! The Waist gunners were given to .50’s that were supposedly hydrl. assisted. The Bombay was modified to hold a fuel tank and massive containers of ammo.
A famous story from that yb-40 is of a p-38 pilot that had gone over to the bad guys side, Italy. They found out he had married a bueatiful Italian woman and painted a likeness of her on the 40. What he would do is come up to hurt bombers and offer them an escort back and then attack them.
Well this 40 lost an engine to flack and he showed up and did his usual routine. The boys in the 40 started to tell him about this wild and “free” italian woman they all had a swing at and riled him up. Just before this they cleaned out the plane of all weight they could. they only had ammo in their .50’s left all other was dumped.
The 38 pilot listened them and lost it, charging in cussing them out and he was met by 2 top turrets and a twin .50 waist gun. needless to say it ended right there and the 40 made it home.
This story taken from Martin Caiden’s book “Flying Fortress”
-Jeff
P.S. That book has several pics of yb-40’s in it.
The problem with your proposed B17 variant is the airframe would be knackered in no time. Apparently the airframes of the B25G/H equiped with the 75 mm cannon needed a complete overhaul after 50 rounds were fired due to the inability to completely compensate for the enormous recoil. Putting two into an airframe would probably mean the aircraft only flying a couple of missions before having to have a complete rebuild!!! Also as the B17 was a slower aircraft there would probably be a problem with the two cannons having such a dramatic effect on airspeed when fired the thing would probably stall!!! Would still make an interesting model though.
Vintage, you must me talking about a ground attack, support aircraft? Kinda like todays C-130s and the old C47s from Vietnam? Think about the possibility of a B-17 or B-24 used ad a ground support, low level gunship? I never really though of that.
Scott
59 Squadron of RAF Costal Command had 45 B-17’s fitted with a pair of Vickers “S” 40mm cannon in the nose to fire at surfaced U-boats. I remember they were in a turret and the guns could depress something like 25 degrees from horizontal. This was the same cannon fitted to Hawker Hurricane Mk. IID’s for tank killing duty in Africa and Burma.
Heres an excerpt from the Baugher site concerning strength of the B-25 nose when initally fitted with the 75mm.
"In the B-25G, a standard 75-mm Army M4 cannon was mounted to fire forward through the nose. This gun was a revision of the famous French 75 of World War I. The basic concept had been found to be feasible via a series of experiments on a converted Douglas B-18A Bolo. However, since the effects of the heavy muzzle blast on the nose structure of the Mitchell were unknown, a complete forward fuselage section was built and trucked to a secret area in California where firing tests could be conducted out of the way of prying eyes. Guided by these tests, the structure was progressively strengthened until full resistance to prolonged firing of 75-mm rounds could be demonstrated. "
Also Italy had the Piaggio P. 108A that was fitted with a 102mm cannon. The 108 was about the size and performance of the B-17. With proper strengthening and support the 108 did just fine with the cannon. I seriously doubt that firing 2 75mm’s would stall a B-17.
I’d like to see the pics of this build when completed, 2x 75mm fired at the sametime from an aircraft, would almost move backwards. I have seen a 48 scale B24 Liberator married to a B17e nose, looked interesting. As my 48 scale B17g kit is going to be a Fortress III in RAF markings.
Rob.