The lack of respect for Mecha.

Modeling Subjects Science Fiction
1

Well, I have started to see a trend recently in the older modelers (the armor, air, and car people) and just turning their noses up at us mecha builders. Granted, I havent done one in a while, I have some waiting in the wings (PG Wing Zero, HGUC Jagd Doga, G Savior, Mg Ball, Mg F91, wow, more then I thought).

I seem to get the impression that they think that its kids stuff. the problem is the fact that there snapper kits, they come pre molded pre colored, and you can snappem and display, and this here forum does NOT get enough attention from some of the GOOD mecha builders here. I myself am going to try and work more on mecha once I finsh my projects im doing now, I know Puma is working on mecha still (I hope).

I am going to try to pull some of the big names I know from other places to come around here and post wips and such, I know a few, so we can get a bit more respect.

Ultimatley, I think the scale people, if they give mecha a chance, could really sharpen their technique, more percise detail for weathering because of the size, harder paint jobs, more articulated pieces, LED modifications, things of that nature, but they seem to refuse. I want to change that. Any ideas or comments on how?

2

Mate

This is the problem been existing for god know how long… and will never gone away.

Back in 80s armour modellers sneered at Gunpla/Mecha modellers but they’ve been doing ever since. Sure mecha modellers burrowed some of techniques from armour modelling but it was natural progression and besides it wasn’t like they hold the copy right on those techniques. Yet still we see armour modellers consider the mecha models as some kind of glorified kid toys…

Saying that I’ve seen some armour modellers done fantastic work with mech models…

I just wish everyone respect their chosen genre and share and learn from each other - in this case more like learn since I still have alot to learn from armour modelling for use in my Gunpla modelling… ^ ^;

3

It is the fact that people think there glorified kids toys that I am trying to get some of the better gunpla modelers that I know to come over and show their stuff.

I have that same wish, that we would all learn from eachother, but they lok down their noses at us gunpla modelers

4

I can think of a few reason’s it’s “poo-pooed” by mainstream modelers, Smeag… One, it’s totally imaginary and non-historical, so there goes 75% of the "real " modelers… Military modelers like myself, are often ameature historians as well, and spend countless hours (and not a few dollars) on reference and research. We try to carefully re-create minatures of vehicles and equipment, weapons, people, and places that actually existed or exist, and tell a story to others that both entertains and educates. Sci-fi modeling, in and of itself, is nothing more than the collective works of a few people’s imaginations, and many consist of engineering feats and materials that don’t exist, and likely never will…

It’s not about a sci-fi modeler’s skills, it’s definately about the subject matter, since outside the films and flights of fancy of artists, there’s no data to back up the claims of the modeler. I dabble in sci-fi occasonally because it allows me to get into the electrical part of diorama-building and allows me complete freedom to conjour up objects to flesh 'em out from a plethora of sources and material… But I’m a military modeler first and foremost. This kinda puts me in a “Nomad” category, I’m equally comfortable with doing a Humvee in Iraq 2007 as I am with a Fokker Dr1 in 1917. Many modelers pick one military category and never venture outside their comfort zone, too… The jet guys look down on the Wire-wingers, who in turn don’t understand the sling-wings, and the tread-heads consider everything with wings as just something to shoot at…

Still more model subjects that they actually have hands-on experience with as well… I model a LOT of artillery, since the 10 years of my 30-year military career was being a Redleg, and many of my builds reflect that. I doubt there are many, whatta ya call’em, gunpla crewmen?, out there, and I’ve yet to meet a former Colonial Marine or Imperial AT-AT driver…

I’m pretty sure there’s a “geek-factor” involved as well… It’s one tning to model some stuff from well-known sources of entertainment like Star Wars or Star Trek, but when you get into “Japanimation”, you’re reaching to a pretty small audience… With military/auto/ship modeling, eveyone knows someone who was in the military, has been on a boat, or drives a car, they know automatically, what the subject is and what it does… Hell, I don’t even know what your talking about with “maecha”, I assume it’s it’s some kinda Transformers/GoBots/Mech Warrior stuff, and that’s a pretty small audience, compared to the rest of the modeling world… Cartoons, video games, and Super Heroes, they just don’t make a popular modeling subject simply because there’s no reality to compare it with, and it is, after all is said and done, a market that is geared toward the “kiddies”, parents are the primary purchasers, but the kids are the targets and, as yourself know, are largely designed to played with…

However, if such things come to pass in your lifetime into the real world, you can say, “Hell, I was building models of those thing when they where just ink-drawings in a Tokyo movie studio.”…

5

Our club here intown used to have some of the same problem but it seems to have pretty much disappeared. It may be that we have known each other for so long that it just isn’t that important. Although they don’t build them, they still appreciate the work. We still make the usual comments about targets from the aircraft guys and so it goes back and forth. The car and ship guy(s) have the roughest time. There are so few of them, but we still respect each other and the work. We unite on several things. The interest to learn new teqniques, find out about new kits, who to nominate for the club’s officers in the hope that they don’t get picked.

In a forum type environment, it’s harder. There’s less chance to get to know other members. his makes it harder to introduce them into other areas of kits. Some just don’t want to be bothered, being so involved in their own areas of interest.

You may just have to accept it, maybe not. Some will come around to see how well you do your work, others may not. It’s just one of those things. But that doesn’t mean you can’t try communicating with the others. You never can tell.

6

Well… as one who picked up a Best of Show for my Ma.K Falke I say the hell with them. Blow thier minds with a perfect build and weather it like it’s a tank.

7

Mecha has been around for the longest time… The New Kits out there are…. NUTS… the fit is great ! the details exquisite and they are a Joy to build !!! The challenge is to make them Look… as authentic as possible!!! … peoples with great skills can bring those Models to very realistic levels…. And should be appreciated!

Not everybody likes CARS, Airplanes or AFV or Real Space…. Peoples whom truly Appreciate Miniatures, Will Aaaah and Ohhh at anything that is done Well …

Seriously ! I learn a lot by watching or reading about Car or Tanks modelers…. But I don’t like Cars… and I sure don’t Laugh at them…. I spend a lot of time looking at how finishes Were made and the amount of details they put in their Models… Basically, what I would like them to do for US !!! some of our Models are sometimes … 100% Scratch build ! One of a kind ! but it gets dismissed !!! in the FOG of ignorance !

We all started somewhere…. We were all kids at one point !!! and we should get along !!! enjoy the Hobby not… hammer a way of life or genre … and pressure peoples to build REAL subject models…

Peoples that Laugh at Mecha or Sci fi in general!!! Might never tell others they once built the AMT Star Trek Enterprise… 30 years ago… they won’t tell you they loved watching Space 1999 !!! or confess they always dreamt of Owning an EAGLE transporter ! or would have Loved a Voyage at the bottom of the sea Submarine !!! Time pass… and now they are Adults and … Why stop dreaming… ??? or Reliving Long lost Childhood memories by building a replica of a Space ship from Lost in Space… or Star wars !

We all grew Up in changing times… We all Love whatever Turns our Crank !!! That’s what Modelers should Gather for and spread the word…!!! Not parading around and Putting down other subjects…The Small Gems that peoples produce and we love gawking at ! Yeah ! MODELS !!!

A Show judges looking at a subject they aren’t familiar with…. Should not be afraid to LOOK at the model like it was a Car ! or an Airplane… or some AFV !!!

Judge the PAINT FINISH! The Weathering, The Construction ! Don’t dismiss Sci Fi as a Geeks genre and Use the excuse… I am not familiar with the subject … We hear it all the time… well it’s not real ! how can I tell if it is… Correct or accurate?

The same rules applies to everybody!!! It’s all about paying attention to Details…. Rendering Believable Finish and textures… and Displaying a model in public and talk about… around fellow modelers…

Everywhere I have been … Sci-fi was an Afterthought… although…. Events like Wonderfest have been designed for the Sci Fi buffs out there and have been very successful!!! More events like that are needed !

In addition, we also have our Share of Rivet counters…. And Armchair Experts… it is infallible !!! they are everywhere….

I just enjoy making models for myself ! if others happens to like what I do …. Well ! Great !!

Take care !!! whomever you are… Build what You like. And Enjoy the Hobby !!

That’s what it’s all about !!! good times with friends and family !!! it should never be a chore ! where is the fun in that ?

Take care all !!!

8

Don’t worry bout me not kranking out the mecha old friend, I will NEVER give up my Gundams. EVER. They are the glue that keeps my sanity firmly rooted in my head. as for why people give us mech heads crap and a lack of respect, they don’t all see or understand what we see and love about mecha. And if ya havent seen it yet, check out my GM NT-1, I am loving how its turning out. And as long as we love our work, who cares about what others think, after all we have our Sci-Fi fathfulls that post all the time and they all say good things about our work, even if they don’t know what the heck it is.

9

I agree with Hans on this one. For me, its the historical nature of real subjects that provides the inspiration to build a model, not the specific subject matter. As mecha are not “real”, I have pretty much zero interest in the subject. This doesn’t mean I dismiss those who build them as toy collectors (lets face it we are all building toys to one extent or the other), but I won’t spend any extra time looking at them or discussing them - this is exactly the manner I feel about Luft '46 or paper panzers by the way. Over here in Asia, like anime, mecha is huge and its appeal is a lot broader than traditional armor, air, ship, or car models. Hobby shops here in Seoul generally stock about twice as many of these fictional/fantasy models as they do tanks, aircraft, boats, or autos. People who buy mecha/anime kits in Asia range everywhere from elementary students to middle aged business men… Just remember, because someone has no interest in a particular aspect of the hobby does not mean they don’t have less respect for those who do. Happy modelling!

10

The general consensus I’m getting from people who build anything other than mecha (silly folks, as I call them) is that mecha doesn’t have enough history behind them. Whilst I respect them for even looking this way, I have to call that thinking ignorant.

Taking the original gundam into consideration, many mecha series have very full, very vivid ficticious histories. While some would prefer to re-enact a scene of Erwin Rommel’s Afrika Korps with the 15th Panzer Division, there are a few who’d rather re-enact Ramba Ral’s attempt to capture the Earth Federation’s WhiteBase battle carrier with his new MS-07 Gouf (I know of at least two people in this thread who know what I’m talking about)

Either way, I came to this website to discuss my models with other people and how they handle their models. I build giant robots, and would prefer to hear about other giant robots, but if someone builds and exceptional plane or other conventional vehicle I’ll applaude them for their work.

If someone looks down on me for playing with ‘toys’, and they’re on finescale too, I think I’ll take their opinion with a grain of salt. And if their an amazing snob, they can take their opinion, and shove it where the minovsky particles don’t shine.

11

I know nothing about Gundams/Mecha/etc., but I know a well built model when I see it. At the recent IPMS show here in Vegas a young man entered some superb mecha. His painting, detailing, and general level of construction was beautiful. I wanted to get his name but he disappeared before I had the chance. One was black/white and had Japenese police markings. I wanted that baby bad! Hell I wanted to know what kit it was or was built from so I could do it myself.

I’m thinking the serious mecha builders are just a different generation and are building what is current for them, and peaks their interest.

12

The thing is, to guys like hans… now hans I respect you to no end as a modeler, but the fact is you dont know where to look. Check out http://www.bakuc.com/ Its bandai’s universal cup, a massive contest (but also a giant gallery for builders from the brand new to the EXPERTs (like fitchenfoo) between all the entries there are 37 pages of entries, with 30 entries on each page. Thats 1110 kits built and posted (for those bad at math).

As far as scifi and anime being someone’s imagination… In all honesty, did the sherman, or the Zero grow on trees? They came out of someone’s imagination as well, its just that we dont have the technology to build the kind of stuff you would see in Gundam, for example. But as far as the designs go, there very much routed in realism, there not just a giant super robot. All of the weapons have rhyme and reason to them in the story, and the historical background for them, alot routed in realism. The Zaku Bazooka is a straight copy of the M1, the Doms use Panzerfaust and Panzershrekt. The zakus use 120 MM cannons (granted there automatic, but were on our way to that now) and the weaked weapons are head mounted vulcans (which there are schematics for the placement and instalation of where they go and how they work fyi).

The story line itself has alot of historical reference to it.

As far as there being a small cult audiance for mecha, thats a blatent lie. Mecha is insaine in asia, like said above (and welcome to the newest gundam fan here). Every hobby shop in Japan has massive sections for gundam and mecha. The kits that are released are better tooled and put together then some new armor kits I have done. Mecha probably has a larger audiance in general then scale does. I remember a mecha forum I was on, we had somewhere from 5-10 new people per day joining up to learn to build mecha. I see maybe two or three new ones a week on this site for scale, if that.

As far as being toys, There is an extreme difference between the old mecha and something like a Gsystems kit

13

Bwahahahaha!!! That’s funny! :slight_smile:

14

problem there is minosky’s particles dont shine, if they did itd be to easy to stop the ship that released them.

15

The lack of respect has nothing to do with the skills of mecha builders.

I think it is a lack of respect for the subject matter. This of course is in a western (Europe/USA)perspective, because (as said by others) Mecha/anime is very populair in Asia.

But in a western perspective, grown up people that watch sci-fi are nerds and if you watch cartoons you are even worse. There’s no respect for the mecha movies, so there’s no respect for the subject mater the derives from it.

In short:

aircraft=airforce=respect

armor=army=respect

ships=navy=respect

mecha=cartoons=for kids (this is my observation, not my opinion)

16

Thing is, the Sherman and the Zero didn’t remain imaginary, so there’s a precedent. Japan and Asia notwithstanding, the audience in N. America is pretty small. ‘m not raggin’ on anyone’s choice of subject matter, either… I’m just tryin’ to shed some light on the “Whys”, rather than “why bother”… Personally, I don’t care. It’s just not something I’m interested in. I don’t build AT-ATs and Biker Scouts either, although I was a big Star Wars (IV-VI, didn’t give a damn for I & II, and III wasn’t very intersting until the last 45 minutes, but that’s just me. I first got into the Star Wars thing as a teenager in 1976, not 2006, y’know) fan, I only built the things that flew, because I was able to “Suspend Disbelief” for those. Can’t do it for “Japanimation”. I wouldn’t expect a lot of support from the over 40 crowd is all I’m sayin’… It ain’t personal, it’s generational…

I got into military modeling because everyone I knew was either involved in the Second World War, or Korea, or Vietnam, or had family involved in it. I stayed in it because I was part of the military for many years, and had the real stuff right in front of me. We build what we know, kinda…

Tell ya somethin’ else… I ain’t all that wild about display models of any kind… I’m of the mind-set that if it ain’t in a diorama telling a story and doing it’s thing, I pass by it as nicely done" and “interesting”, but that’s about the extent of my reaction. Being a dio-builder puts me in a smaller category than y’all…

17

Interesting. Most of the folk I know in scifi are about my age (42) and come from a military background, from grunts to intelligence officers. For them, and myself, its all about the build. Whether it’s a WWII era Swedish fighter or a what-if piece of German artillery or a Gundam. I tend towards the vignette, tells a story but asks more questions than it tells. Why? Well I’ve just see way too many bad dioramas to inflict the world with another one. Just don’t feel my skills are up to it yet. But I keep stretching.

The people I see looking down their nose @ gunpla or scifi in general also tend to look down thier nose @ anything outside thier own niche. Treadheads look down on car folk, Jet jockey’s look down on tanks, Star Trek people looking down @ Gundam. That’s just the way some people are and the only way to break them out of it is to do something unexpected, like a winder weathered Gundam, or some other stunning piece of work. Even then you’ll have people dismiss it out of hand just because. I just ignore them. When I hit a model show I look @ everything and enjoy it all. I have shelves of books on tanks & aircraft, also arciteecture & cars but that’s another issue, BSG blueprints, you name it. I’m a geek, I admit it. If somebody else has a problem with it it’s thier issue, not mine. I can talk cars with the best (last IPMS regional I helped judge cars), have my own armor fetishes (why don’t we have more models of Swedish armor dammit!), but by and large build scifi. More specifically Gundams, Armored Core, and Ma.K.

So why are they getting looked down at? Well because those people that are doing so will do it no matter what and if you’re outside thier niche they’re going to do it because, psycologically, you make them feel uncomfortable and out of thier element. They don’t know what to do with it and that makes them feel small and no longer powerful. Don’t worry about it, not much you can do about it anyways. Just smile, and start talking about all the hot chicks that dig scifi.[:D]

18

Uhhh, the last time I looked, the name of this forum was Sci-Fi…as in Science-Fiction?

Maybe we all need a little less “science”, and agree to enjoy a little more “fiction”?

19

Its not just people not liking outside their own niche, I know a few people on this site that do cars, planes, tanks, every BUT sci-fi and mecha…

20

But they do shine smeagol! When they come out the buisness end of a beam rifle!

all jokes aside, I think that the age of the modeler has some to do with it, however I have friends that are in their 40s and still love their mecha (mostly western stuff like battletech, but still mecha). not trying to start any wars here, so lets just let people be who they are and not eat eachother alive. the robo- loving members of this forum may be few in numbers, but we produce quality work and are more often that not, some of the most friendly folks on the site (again, not trying to step on toes up here in my gundam, lol). all we can truly hope for is that people will stop and look at our work and at the very least say, “wow, cool robot”, and not get all pissed when they call it a transformer or a go-bot, when clearly its a gundam or a zaku.

in closing, I would like to thank everyone who posted in this thread for your honest and well writen opinions, and I want to thank smeagol for bringing up the question in the first place. I needed some good discusion to get some crap out my brain. [:D]