Hey guys, I just thought that some of you might like to know that the 1975 George Scott movie titled “The Hindenberg” has recenty been re-released on DVD and is available from the Columbia House DVD club (who is running a five-for 50 cent special introductory offer at this time).
For those of you who do not know, this movie is based on the book written in the '70’s by Michael MacDonald Mooney who did research using the then recently passed “Freedom of Information Act”, wherein the author discovered that in fact U.S. agents did indeed find pieces to a time bomb, but were ordered “to find no one at fault” in order to not disturb the difficult political situation we had with Hitler at the time.
In making the movie, much of the original structure was re-built from scratch for close-up scenes, as well as using a 25 foot model.
I got my copy for free using their Funcash program, and am enjoying it very much, as well as having pre-ordered the “Flyboys” DVD from them as well that is coming out next month! [swg]
As an aside, there was recently a PBS special that alegedly “disproved” the sabotage theory by demonstrating that the ship’s fabric was the main fuel for the disator, not the hydrogen gas cells.
In watching this, I still did not see how merely demonstrating that the fabric was the main flammible culprit “disproved” the sabatoge theory in any manner. [%-)]
I mean the incindiary device goes off, the hydrogen cell begins to burn, the fire travels up to the outer fabric, the fabric catches fire, etc, etc.
Did more than one person shoot John F. Kennedy? Was Amelia Earhart shot down by the Japanese? Was the Lucitania sunk because she was carrying war materials? Was the Hindenberg blown out of the sky? There are many unsolved mysteries in history and most of us would like definitive answers.
Think about this. There are still files from WWI that are still classified. This applies to WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam as well. Why? Recently some historians came accross information that proves that the Tuskeegee Airment DID lose some bombers to enemy fighters. For years the story had it that they never lost a bomber when they flew cover. It turns out that this is not quite correct. They only lost a few, but they did lose a few. Should this little bit of history been left burried? Does it deminish the reputation of those grand pilots? Not in my eyes, but the truth is the truth. We deserve to know the truth about our history no matter what the political outcome may be. Did a spacecraft really land at Roswell with “space men” on board?
Here is one last one for you. George Armstrong Custer was at the Little Big Horn with the intention of massacurring old men, women, and children. He did not know that well armed braves would be there. Hero? My foot. The murderer got what he deserved. Do not misunderstand. Custer was indeed a Civil War hero, as were his TWO Medal of Honor winning brothers. Why he accepted the mission to kill indians for political reasons is beyond me. He was a good soldier, but then so was Lt. Calley (sp.)
In the first place, you are expressing definate opinions, whereas I am not.
I simply feel that the sabotage theory, given the huge weight of both poitical and physical evidence, is the most likely.
Unlike the Lusitania, the Titinic, Roswell/area51, Custer’s fight at little Big Horn, or even the JFK assasination the specific sequence of the entire Hindenberg disaster was completely and concisely captured on film by professional newsreel photographers, and in addition to having a large number of surviving witnesses, the complete wreckage literally laid out in an open field on the base at Lakehurst, NJ, readily and easily accessible for forensic investigation as well, with nothing sealed or kept form the public at this time.
Regarding the JFK assination, in addition to there being no actual clear footage of the deed, as well as the confusion of the large crowd of spectators and literally three uncoordinated law enforcement agency’s involved to cloud the issue, there still remains the Warren Commission report that was sealed, to be made available to the public later, but like the Rudolf Hess affair, it still remains under wraps. Jack Ruby’s assasintion off Lee Harvey Oswald has not really been fully explained, nor his unusual death in prison. What better way to keep a captured Soviet agent from talking then to get rid of him?
Did you know that current history books convenitntly omit the fact that Osward was a proven agent for Russia?
As for Custer, as with every hero, there are always detractors and nay-sayers. Now you have a lot of controversy about General Douglas MacAurthor’s reluctance to get his air force off the ground when he was clearly warned that the Japanese were coming his way, when in fact the write-off of the Philipeans to the Japanese was in a secret war plan drawn up under President Theodore Roosevelt.
Personally, I feel to get into a spitting contest with anyone regarding a controversial historical figure whose standing orders were simply "to pursue the Indians and ’ bring them to battle’ " is contrary to the intent of this forum. I mean, he did get killed by hostile tribesmen before he was able to actually fulfill the intent of his mission didn’t he? It is generally agreed by historians that his arrogant refusal to take his Gatling guns was a very bad decision. Why pound on his rotting remains in December 2006?
All I was saying is that there are historic events that have been, and continue to be, studied and opinions expressed as to what really happened, INCLUDING THE HINDENBERG DISASTER. In some instances the truth has been skewed or burried for various reasons. Another incomplete aviation story is the Lindberg baby killing. Until all of the evidence is made public and available the conspiacy thearies will continue. As for the Hindenberg there have been several conclusive investigations that have conclusively solved the cause of the disaster. Believe whatever one you choose. The same is true for the Earhart story. About every 5 years someone claims to have conclusively solved the Earhart disapearance. The aforementioned events make for some interesting reading and great entertainment.
As I stated above, in the '70’s the book titled “The Hindenburg” by Michael MacDonald Mooney did in fact fully report what was indeed publically available to the author, and thusly made public through his book to anyone who wished to read it.
If you feel that there were “several conclusive investigations that have conclusively solved the cause of the disaster”, that’s fine with me, but from what I have seen of these “investigations”, they were done with a clear biase from the start, i.e., to prove no-one at fault. Also your statement seem to be contradicted by the content of the Wikipedia article that does not record “several conclusive investigations that have conclusively solved the cause of the disaster”. The investigations mentioned are, “opponents point to the fact that neither of the formal investigations (American and German) concluded in favor of any of the sabotage theories. However, proponents of the sabotage theory point out that any finding of sabotage would have been an embarrassment for the Nazi regime”. [:-^]
Per the above linked article on Wikipedia,“opponents of the sabotage hypothesis claimed that no firm evidence, only suppositions, supporting sabotage as a cause of the fire was produced at any of the formal hearings on the matter”. That was because at that time the discovery of the bomb’s remains in the wreckage was covered up and sealed by the U.S. government, only to be revealed later due to Mooney’s research using the “Freedom of Information Act”. They either simply were unaware of it and their assertions were made out of ignorence, or they had an agenda to gain by knowingly lying. I tend to feel that most of them simply did not know.
The single factor that they all choose to ignore is that as I stated above, as recorded in Mooney’s book there indeed were found parts to a time bomb in the wreckage at Lakehurst, New Jersey.
Also, by throwing other unrelated “unsolved mysteries” whose indicents were not as clearly and personally recorded, by both motion picture and radio recordings, with the abundance of forensic evidence as was the Hindenburg’s disastor into this forum, it just looks like an attempt to divert the focus of the topic and the theme and debase the quality of the Universal Studio’s movie as well as Michael MacDonald Mooney extremely well written book.
Among other things the movie has:
Several operating examples of Bf-109’s in it, including Luftwaffe and Spanish air force markings.
Very well done interior detail shots of the airship itself, including a replica of teh special all-aluminum piano they had aboard.
An all-star cast that very accurately depicted the personalities of the actual passengers of that ill-fated airship.
As well-done plot based on a very plausible theory, based on recent historic evidence.
Excellent integration of actual historic newsreel footage with detailed internal shots at the time of the disastor.
Personally, I put the movie “The Hindenburg” on about the same level as “The Aviator” or a notch above the recent movie “Flyboys”, only it has a very interesting hypothesis woven into it which adds to my enjoyment of intrigue.
So if your purpose is to smear what I feel is a very well-done aviation film that I truly enjoy, or if you have “airship-phobia”, I really feel you need to “chill out” and let those of us who like such things simply enjoy them for what they are.
I mean, I am an aircraft fanatic, including the classical Zepplins, so I really like this being available at this time, OK?
First of all i dont think you should be using Wikipedia as your only source that your posting.
Second of all from what ive read Custer was going to run for president after the Battle of Little Bighorn he planned to attack the indians and ride straight to Washington and being a hero be elected in the next presidential election. He just didnt figure there were going to be more than 3 times the amount of indians he thought there was.
Using one source, especially one that can be ammended by anyone, is not the way to form an opinion of historical events. That said, any discussion of any historical event will have to allow for opinion, case in point the statement that Custer was looking to murder (emphasis mine), Indians. Hard to sway anyone when their mind is so set on an ideal such as that.
I believe that the Warren Commisions report has been “made public”, with the only member still alive being former president Gerald R. Ford, however, and this is a big one, how much of the report is actually releveant to the case? Forensics of the 1960’s are nothing compared to those of today, i.e. the magic bullet that can travel through two human bodies and remain intact. I mean just because the Warren Commision found that to be ‘fact’ doesn’t mean it is in reality, true.
Now as for Custer running for president, I have never heard or read that, (which does not mean it is not true). In an article written by Dr Jerry D.Morelock, he points out that Custer, (then a Lt. Colonel in the US Army), was told there would be only 500-800 Indian warriors and that every one of his tactical decisions was based on ten years experience and affected by information he did not have. Custer, knew that the hardest part of Plains warfare was finding the enemy. Custers commanding officer, General Terry did not tell the whole truth of the plan after the battle. Lastly the actual number of 1500-2000 warriors was, quoting Morelock: “likely the largest ever concentration of Plains Indians- a unique congregation lasting only a few days. This historic anomaly is the overriding factor that led to Custer’s defeat.”
Again that last is the authors opinion, but most of OUR opinions are based on knowing what those in history did not.
I’ve been looking for one for a few years now, but the one’s that pop up are ridiculously overpriced, for what the kit is. There is a smaller Revell offering that crops up occasionally though:
It wasn’t-I cited Mooney’s book which I owned and read before the movie came out as my primary source.
If you checked the Wikipedia article, you will find Mooney’s book cited as well as a list of other resources as well.
My point was why the seemingly almost extreme measures to keep the sabotage theory out of the question as a historical probabiltiy, even to the point of a recent PBS special that in demonstrating that it was the skin that was probably the major flammible agent, not the hydrogen gas itself, went on to say that this somehow disproved the sabotage/bomb theories!!!???
How would this disprove an incindiary bomb was the triggering agent?
Wouldn’t that be like saying a dog mauling victum died from blood loss and not from rabies, which proved the neighbor’s pit bull could not have done it???
I don’t think any insults were intended here. Everyone knows you can’t gauge the tone of an email.
I will buy the movie (thanks for the heads up) and watch it and I might even enjoy it. But as to what really caused it to burn, who knows. Everyone knows you can’t believe what you here anyway, wheather its right after the fact or 50 years after the fact.
Everyone lies, every agency lies, every government lies to cover up this and to cover up that and that is why most truths will never be known about most things.
But it is fun to speculate and form your own conclusions based on the half truths and misdirection that feeds this society.
Really, all were doing here is exchanging playful thoughts. Thats all it is folks.
Not me ! I have been busy vaccuumforming styrene and aluminium foil hats to ward off the mind control waves that are beamed to us from the Mothership that is inside the moon.
I saw Elvis last night too, he has lost weight on the Jenny Craig diet, and is hoping to date Kirstie Alley very soon, or at least as soon as she loses another 60 pounds.
I am shook up. Now, where has that zeppelin gone to?
So- THAT is what has been following me ! And here I thought it was nothing more than a deep dark depression stemming from being picked up by aliens and probed.
Have I told you about my implant? Do you know why the X-files show was cancelled? Not because the series had run out of any ideas at all, but because the shows were based on reality ! I know, because a man dressed up as a Klingon told me this at the last StarTrek convention in California, and Klingons don’t lie. They proved that in episode 127 “Warf drops a bomb”.
What you thought was an occasional roof-leak is in fact the airship dumping ballast now and then.
Actually X-Files was cancelled because David Duchovny got tired of going to Canada for the shootings, and wanted to stay in L.A. with his girl friend, and so he quit. His presence with his “Captain Ahab Complex” (ala Moby Dick) was irreplaceable.
As for stories tied in with UFO’s, men in black, etc, the list is almost inexhaustable. Some are genuine unexpalined mysteries, but people also cook up half of them just for the attention it gives them.
I like the one about how the Red Baron was not really killed in battle.
According to the story, which is from a complerely unverifiable source, as Richtoven became fatalistic, and was diagnosed with severe clinical depression and about to have a nervous breakdown, was given a forced extended leave, and later permanently retired in secret under the care of a special nurse in a villa in Austria. To cover this up to the allies, who were very intimidated by his reputation, and to give him a “hero’s exit”, they took the body of a Gunther Von Graben-Mund, a fellow pilot who as shot by a jealous husband of a superior officer (who quickly grabbed an 8mm Mauser from a soldier guarding the residence for his weapon of revenge) while he was entertaining that officer’s amoruous wife when he came back from early from a routine field inspection (which explains the odd angle of the bullet entry wound).
The story goes that the Germans quickly planted Von Graben-Mund’s body (listing him as missing in action to keep his family from being scandelized) dressed as Richtoven in one of the Red Baron’s triplanes after another pilot faked getting shot down, and so when the allied armies finally went to check the plane, they figured that they really got him. And if the Allied forensic examinors later discovered it was not him, they were not about to reveal that the press about Roy Brown getting him as untrue, as the Brit’s were desperate for a morale boost at that time.