Ok, Question… for you armor dudes… and dudettes… ( we got any armor Dudettes? ) ,
Untill recently, I hadn’t built any armor since high school… ( 27 years ago…)… at the urging of a friend… I built some Panzer IV’s… one even won a 1st at Downeastcon this spring… I was very surprised.!. but this tank was modeled after one used in Africa , so I weathered the tracks with sand and dust in mind… My thougt process was sand, abrasive, steel tracks would be worn steel looking with dust… no rust… It seemed to work…[Y]
Now, I see alot of armor in here and on other places, with very rusty treads, ( dirt and mud are optional depending on where the subject tank is deployed and I am good with that weathering detail), but my question is this… I’ve seen alot of treads,tracks on construction equipment, that are used daily in mud,sand, dirt, wooded areas, etc , and all are worn steel looking, not shiny, but silver, of course with the added dirt ,grime,mud for the specific area their working in… but very little rust. Even equipment that has sat for a few months has very little rust… so… did the steel back in the day rust quicker ? is rust more of an artistic license? or? and dont get me wrong… I really love everyones work I’ve seen since I’ve been paying more attention to the armor…I’m just trying to balance both what I see in real life to what I see here…
I’m curretly finishing up a Pershing from the closing months of WWII with the steel treads… and this is the final hangup before I declare it done… I used Friuls, washed them in a black sludge wash, then brushed on dry pigments of black, dark brown… I’m liking how it looks now… but am kinda stuck…
Anybody elses ideas, and thoughts… would be cool…! [:)]
Well that’s probably the most important thing. Any how, I am by far no expert on this topic but I’ve always thought similarly as you. If the tank is still operational and is seeing use, there shouldn’t be a great deal of rust on moving parts. Minimal at best, especially on the tracks. It was always my impression that for one thing, tanks didn’t last that long on the battle field to get rusty during service. I’ve heard that during 1941 to 1942, Russian tanks had a life span of only 5 to 7 days. Also, factor in the frequent break downs of the larger and more cumbersome German tanks and TD’s like the Tiger I and II, the Panther and the poor level of survivability of the Sherman and other allied tanks.
In my opinion, tanks didn’t last long enough to get all that rusty.
Has the tank been sitting over night and the scene the modeler is portraying is taking place the first thing the next morning? If so, that surface rust should be perfectly acceptable. Every morning when I show up on the job site, the tracks on the excavator and/or bulldozer are covered in fresh rust, even a damp night or the morning dew can have this effect and the longer it sits, the darker it becomes. Even if it spent the whole day previous, running around on bright shiny tracks, the next day is always the same.
Also, saying that a tank only had a lifespan of say X amount of days can be a little misleading as often times those very same ‘knocked out’ tanks were then recovered, cobbled back up and put back into use, if this were to happen multiple times, some parts of the tank would have much more use than others and would far exceed that ‘short lifespan’.
Look at these brand new pieces of construction equipment, most of the track is still painted black, attesting to just how new and unused they are. Yet, after sitting in the lot after a short drive to their respective parking spaces, the idle tracks are showing rust where they were previously worn shiny.
While I may not personally be a big fan of rusted tracks on models, I still feel it’s all about the context of the scene and not a cut and dry fact.
Minimal rust…my humble opinion. Also, something that seems to be left out of almost every discussion: the more iron in the track parts, the more rust. Alloys with high carbon content, molybdenum (sp?) chromium, or manganese steel, don’t show so much surface rust. Lots of experimentation was going on with the materials tracks were made of, some of which simply didn’t show red rust overnight…
In the quest for light weight, durability, and manufacturing ease, iron was low on the list of desirable material. In places where ideal materials were in short supply (Germany?), or lower tech places (Russia?) maybe then you might see the cheap or plentiful stuff, which may have rusted faster or visibly…
So, long story short, kind of, I generally try to represent a dull metal look on areas of the tracks not in continuous direct contact with something, and something cleaner than that in areas that contact the wheels/tires and sprocket teeth, etc.
From my personal experience, rust is for motor parks and gate guards… Operational tracked vehicles loose the rust on the tracks ten minutes after they hit the tank-trails… There’s mostly ground color on 'em, unless they stayed on the hardball… Rusty tracks are best left to the sections used for applique armor and spare links… An dif they’re in the desert, they get bright & shinky until they’ve been parked overnight, then you’ll see little bright orange specks here & there in th morning…
In my opinion, the answer lies between the “No rust” camp and the “Rust Uber Alles!” crowd–there should be a sheen of light rust over the tracks, but not so it looks like its been frozen in place.
It depends on the conditions that you’re portraying the tank in too. If you’re portraying it on the move, then it would have less. But as far as dirt and mud–there DEFINITELY should be some portrayal of dirt and brown tints in the tracks, …unless your tank only patrols paved parking lots. [;)]
Have fun with it. But as said above over and over, a rusty track is not in use. If an tracked vehicle sits still for a day or more, rust appears on all bare bare metal surfaces, how quickly depending on climate. But as son as its moving that rust is gone within minutes. The parts that have metal to metal contact, sprocket and guide teeth, the holes for sprocket teeth, get a polished metal appearance, while everything else takes on the tone of the surrounding environment. Mud and dust as needed.
Variables include alloy used in the composition of the track links, climate factors and the surface the tracked vehicle travels. Metal that is pounded continuously will harden and become more rust and abrasion resistant. A good example of this is the corner edge of a bulldozer blade. Over night the blade rusts yet the corners that have the most ground contact will not for weeks.
Parts of the track that are not in contact with the ground or the running gear will rust. The higher carbon content in a alloy the harder steel will become (files, tools, drill bits) This is a trade off as it becomes more brittle and prone to rust.
Thanks again guys…! Love all the repsonses… Its helping me steer in the direction I was thinking… I didn’t get a chance to post pics of the treads so far… I got waylayed last night with American Idol.lol… ssshh…
