I’m new here, but have been back at the hobby for about a year and a half now. Quite a few kits full of mistakes, but it’s helped me learn quite a bit and improve a fair bit too.
At the moment, I’m working at tamiya’s spitfire mk vb in 1:48 and turning it into a craft from RAF 303 squadron (the Polish wing) for a friend of my Father’s of Polish descent. My end goal is to have it set on a small diorama with pilots scrambling around it (possibly even italeri’s new hurricane posed beside it in similar unit markings). I’m using quite a bit of Eduard’s photo etch and Ultracast’s control surfaces and Hispano cannons, Techmod’s 303 squad decals (trying to build this as Jan Zumbach’s aircraft).
As I am using Eduard’s etch, I am planning to pose the unit with landing flaps opened. This begs my first question, does anyone out there know were the interior of the landing flaps painted the same RAF interior green as the cockpit by chance? I am assuming they would be, but I want to be historically accurate in this. My other question, along the same lines, does anyone know what color the interior / oleos of the landing gear were painted typically?
Having poked through the forums in the past, I think there are quite a few Spitfire aficionados out there, any help would be greatly appreciated.
The laid-down colour, for the flap interiors, was silver dope, and the same applied to the door interiors, wheel wells, and oleo legs. That was ex-factory, of course; what happened, once they’d been in service for a time is anyone’s guess.
Hey Andrew, a few things. First, welcome back. Second, you came to the right place since there are many knowledgable people here. This leads me to my next point, I’m by no means a Spitfire expert, but its my understanding the flaps should always be up when a Spitfire is parked. They were required to raise them after landing to avoid damage. It was reportedly an immediate reprimand if the pilots failed to do so. Next, and this is purely a caveat from my experience, Techmod decals are awful. A year and a half back in to this hobby? I would certainly steer clear of theses unless you enjoy extreme frustration. Nothing will penatrate those roundels (See my Techmod Trap Thread in decaling forum). You can probably get away with the fuselage codes and other small marking if you use lots of water and put them in the right spot the first time. I would piece together the roundels and tail flag from Aeromaster, Eagle Strike, or Superscale. Just my two cents guy. Good Luck
Thank you all very much for the input. Manstein’s, thank you for the photo, it should be a great help. Lawdog, I will take your advice with the decals, and use only what I absolutely have to from the decal kit for that unit mark. The others, I’ll hunt out a better set online. Edgar, thank you very much for the original colors, now that I think on it, I may incorporate Manstein’s interior green with a little chipped silver dope showing through in the flaps. On the advice of Lawdog, I think I will show them only slightly opened. Another question, as I’ve heard with Spits the control surfaces tended to ‘flop’ when the aircraft was parked, which is my reason for ordering Ultracast’s set, and plan to show the elevators and ailerons tilted downwards, would this be the correct positioning?
And Lawdog, yes a year and a half back into it and just starting to do a ‘proper job’ of it. A lot has changed since I was 15 and used a paint brush to paint my aircraft, and a lot to learn. I think I’m catching on, though, and I keep getting a little better at it with each kit.
I’m not as familiar with the intricacies of Spits as, say, P-47s, but I do know the gear struts, interior doors etc weren’t necessarily always silver dope. The legs on my Mk.VIII are the same azure blue as the underside, same with the door interiors. Sadly not sure about the flaps - as others have said they didn’t spend much time down, so there’s not all that much in the way of photography that I’m aware of.
…and you can’t go wrong with dropping the control surfaces, especially the rear stabilizers. I used to do that all the time but I have since gotten lazy in this regard.
Remember that under normal circumstances, the ailerons operate crosswise, ie. one up/one down. Do not, under any circumstances, drop both sides, unless you are modelling an aircraft undergoing maintenance/repairs where the aileron cables are disconnected. [;)]
Again, thank you very much everyone. I’m glad I asked all of this well in advance of getting there. At this point, I’ve spent six days on ‘the office’ and I think I’m about happy with it. This gives me a lot to consider, and mostly considering closing up those landing flaps and only slightly tilting the ailerons (opposite each other as Phil suggested). I’ll have to order up those decals, Lawdog, and thanks for the suggestion. Luckily, I’ve got loads of time until I’m at that decal stage.
During 1942 Zumbach used three different Spitfires consecutively, BM144, EP594, EN951, all coded RF*D and featured four different variations of Donald Duck. However, kit manufacturers and after market decals are notorious for confusing the three aircraft. As Polish Spitfire guru Woytek Matusiak has written. “…… it is sad how few authors realise that Zumbach’s Donald Duck was applied to a number of Spitfires in several different forms, Available publications and decals mercilessly mix up the Ducks, the black cross sets, and the serial numbers of aircraft. This is, doubtless, due to ignorance, and not deliberate deception.” At least Techmod can get the details right.
The first of Zumbach’s Donalds,BM144, on 25th April 1942 when it was still relatively new. Notice how the front end has a darker appearance. It is often speculated that the front panels were repainted or a replacement from another aircraft. If so, there must have been an awful lot of repainting and replacing going on as it is quite common to see this phenomenon in photographs of Spitfires. In fact all there in the photograph show it.
Change the viewpoint and the affect is less noticeable. It most likely cause was a thin film of oil spray from the propeller pitch mechanism. After a while heat from the engine would bake it into a dark patina like a well used cake tin. Zumbach’s EN951 is a fine example of this. You can simulate it with a thin coat of Tamiya’s smoke.
The Spitfire soon became much more worn and the roundels were altered by expanding the red centres. The original centre can be seen in the photograph. The crow bar appears to be natural steel. Crow bars were not painted red until post war. During the war they were either steel, Grey Green or perhaps black but never red.
After Zumbach had finished with it, it was completely repainted and recoded as ‘H’. Once again the crow bar appears to be steel. Leaving the flaps deployed while taxiing was a no-no because debris could be thrown up into them by the wheels, but it is not uncommon to see them in the dropped position, as in this case, in photographs of aircraft being serviced. So if you want drop ‘em go ahead and do it.
Flaps were either down, or up; there was no in-between setting, since they were operated by compressed-air, not hydraulics. Air was pushed into a cylinder, which pushed the flaps down; to retract the flaps, the air was exhausted to atmosphere, and a spring pulled the flaps back up (completely) again. Elevators could be seen drooped, when the aircraft was at rest, but, if one aileron is down, the other must be raised, and the handgrip, on the stick, offset towards the “up” aileron as well.
Antoni, thank you very much for sharing the photos. I plan to hunt out some better roundels, use Tamiya’s kit stencils for the most part, and Techmod’s specific markings for EN951. I do appreciate the advice about the flaps. Edgar, thank you for the advice with the ailerons, that will help me with my very slightly out of center handgrip (leaning slightly to the right, so now I know the right aileron will be slightly raised and the left dropped an equal amount). I think, because I’ve committed to purchasing the etched flaps, and because I’ve doubly committed (and in excitement and haste) removed the flaps from the kit shortly after opening it, I will mount them posed open. This will be a lesson in research before razor saw for me. As well as hunting out the better decals, perhaps I’ll hunt down a scale mechanics crew to explain it.
Again, thank you everybody for the advice and photos.
I will have to create an account at one of the photo sites to show off a little bit of my work and gather some opinions. Have a good day, everyone, and good luck with present and future projects.
EN951 was already pretty filthy when Zumbach acquired it in late September 1942. Note the extra white stripe on the propeller tips, a legacy of its previous owners, 133 Squadron where it was flown regularly by F/Lt Don Blakeslee (27 sorties). This feature often goes unnoticed so you can claim extra brownie points for including it. Donald has adopted a pale blue egg; something else that often gets left out by the aftermarket boys
as it does not seem to show up in black and white photographs. Zumbach’s elongated rear-view mirror can clearly been seen and whereas BM144 had the earlier type of voltage regulator, EN951 had the later type (on the back of the pilots headrest.
iCM have a set of RAF pilots, ground crew and associated equipment. Catalogue no. 48081. It is sometimes included as an extra with their Spitfire kits and I think Tamiya have also included it from time to time with some of their kits.
Antoni, thank you. I do have the notes about the white bands on the propeller tips. I also have a couple of Eduard figure kits, ground crew and pilots in uniform, pilots in flight gear. I notice Hannants offers what I think is Revell’s reboxing of the ICM kit you mention, and Sprue Brothers has the same ICM kit. I’ll have to order one of them up, and I’m sure between the three kit boxes I’ll be able to work out something for the figures. Thank you for the note about Jan’s craft being quite dirty, that is a bit of relief after weathering the cockpit up. I know in the past I have an issue about going to far, which I’ve been working on quite a bit. I’ll have to keep that in check this time. I was also doing a bit of reading on DoogsATX site, and am keen to try his three layer blend technique. Very nicely noted about the paint to thinner ratio in the last stage, Doog.
Though I’m told it’s a no no, I’ve always painted with acryls, future, decals, then a Testor’s lacquer layer, Vallejo weather, flat coat and Vallejo or Mig pigments. I’ve found the future prevents the acryls and lacquer from interacting badly.
The Revell Spitfire Mk IX is the Hasegawa kit and the Mk XVI (low-back) is, if I remember correctly, the Ocidental kit. I don’t think either of them have ground crew.
The only ICM kit with ground crew that Hannants lists is this one
There are others such as 48067 World War Two Great Aces. 48802 is a Mk IX Spitfire; the crew figures are Soviet. You can buy the figures on their own if you prefer.
I am also of partial Polish descent. A few years ago I did a Tamiya Spitfire V in 303 Squadron markings for Jan Zumbach’s aircraft and his “Mad Duck” (donald Duck) motiff.
You need to use edit to delete the link and then paste it in again. Then your photograph will appear. The same thing happened to me in my posts and – its a a pain in the neck!
