i was watchin the mlitary channel the other day and they were doing a thing on the best tank of all time. the russian T34 came out on top and at first i was a bit skeptical, but after a few minutes of their explaning i found myslef in love w/ the agile tank. they said that since the crew counldn penitrate the thick armor of the Tiger, they used their speed and mobility to ram their rock solid frontal plate armor into the Tiger, disabaling it that way. i imidiatly knew i wanted to make a small diaroma of just that. i have the Zevadia T34/76 ('43) and the Dragon King Tiger (Henschel) and wanted to have them in the snow, the tigers tracks all locked up w/ mud and gunk, possibly thrown. but i have no idea what kind of snow wash (if any) or other markings a King Tiger would have on the eastern front, i have an FMS article on a T34 wash though. also what kind of damage either tank would sustain, the discovery show didn’t elaborate. i was thinking of tilting the Tiger up off the ground too as if the impacked had lifted it up, but im not sure if the T34 would have been that powerful. any sugestions are definitly welcome, havnt even opened the boxes yet.
Well, on the damage, when you get the basics of the chassis and the hull top together, slip on a set of wheels real quick to get the correct hight of each tank, then put each tank in front of each other, see where they connect, that should give you a good “damage plan”
hmmmm another one of those shows. It would make an interesting dio yes … but accurate … well im not sure. In all of my 23 Tiger books I haven’t once read about a Tiger being ramed by a T-34, however there is a very well known story of a Tiger being ramed by a Sherman in Normandy.
There are plenty of stories about how the Russians always rode into battle buttoned up and thus was virtually blind, they sometimes ended up in the middle of the german units not knowing what was going on around them. Otto Carius describes an incident where a T-34 got so close that when the Tiger turned its turret the gun struck the turret of the T-34 … and the T-34 still didn’t see the Tiger. The Tiger backed off a bit and put a hole in the T-34.
Maybe it did happen, maybe a T-34 did ram a Tiger … but I don’t think it happened very often.
Damaging a sprocket /track would probably be the intent. King tigers were not that reliable. Left alone they would probably break down on there own so I don’t know if there was any real suicide rush SOP. Maybe there was some individual T34 that made a charge in desperation.
the Sherman in Normandy story sounds better for a Dio
as tmni said about the russian driving blind that so true any german gunner would neva of let any russian get to close.
be good to good to see a dio with a t-34-85 and a late production tiger1 along side one another with the germans checkin out there kill and chalkin up another kill ring on there barrel,
It would seem that self preservation would factor into the “ramming” scenario. The “Rammer” might come out worse than the “Ramee”?
Steve
with the sherman ramming in normandy, it was get very close before getting shot
the kingtiger crew were captured when they got stuck with the sherman
the kt should of blow the sherman skyhigh
If you do this, two things you’ll need to do. The KT will have to have suspension unloaded, i.e… extended as tje weight is takemn off them and conversely, the T-34 will vave to have its suspension overloaded, i.e., made shorter from the additional weight of the KT. If you do a lot of mud, you’re going to have to sink these in quite deeply.
As far as the ramming goes, maybe TMC was thinking the Stormovics ramming German aircraft.
well thank you everyone for all the advice. i think i have a pretty good idea of how im going to damage the two tanks and how to overlaod the suspention. i’m still not sure what the germans did to camoflash the kt’s on the eastern front, if they gave it a white wash like the russians or more of a thick, field applied kinda brushed-on hatch pattern like the americans in the ardanes. i think the sherman idea also sounds better for a dio, but i’ve had the kits for a while and bein 16 w/ no real job, dont really have the money to buy a sherman unfortunitly. that and ive always wanted to stick a Tiger in the snow
Wow, first I’ve heard of this, but it should make a very interesting diorama nonetheless. Still not sure how that would have worked, considering the superior weight of the King Tiger.
I have never heard of a T-34 ramming a KT or a Tiger I, but have seen pictures of a T-34/76 crewman being pulled out dazed from his tank after being rammed by a Stug III.
So thell me about the Sherman-Tiger accident!
Who got the ticket? I’ll bet his insurance went thru the roof! Where was that little green lizard?
battlefield.ru (i think) had an article about how ramming of german tanks by russians was quite common and actually involved a good deal of skill. as far as self-preservation, i don’t think that was much of a factor for the soviet troops. plenty of stuff they did was suicidal.
there is also an account of a KV-1 ramming a Tiger 1 (i believe). i think it was in my osprey kv-1 book. the kv-1 was hit, the crew bailed out with the commander wounded. i think the turret was disabled. in order to save the commander, the driver got back in the tank and rammed the tiger. both tanks exploded.
Man… If that was true, all the crewmen in that T-34 probably had some serious brain damage after ramming the KT.
quote:
While probing forward near Cagny on the initial day of the “Goodwood” offensive, Lt John Gorman, a troop commander of 2nd Armoured Battalion, Irish Guards, suddenly found himself confronted by a Tiger II and three Tiger I’s of the elite 503rd Heavy Tank Battalion. Supported by only one other Sherman, and aware that their 75mm guns would be ineffective against such monsters, he gave the order to his driver to ram the King tiger. Gorman’s tank “Ballyragget” succeeded in colliding with it’s target before the Tiger’s 88mm gun could be brought to bear on his Sherman, and with both tanks immobilised the crews quickly abandoned their tanks. Lt. Gorman, however, was not finished and making his way off the field, he returned shortly afterwards with a Sherman Firefly, to finish off the stricken Tiger II and one of the Tiger I’s. For this action he was awarded the Military Cross, and his driver L/Cpl Baron the Military Medal.
my [2c]…from what ive heard of russian workmanship and quality, im not even sure if it would have been too healthy for the t-34, even if it hit on the front. i thought the tracks of the t-34, stuck out to the same length as the front plate, meaning the tracks would have been smashed into the tiger as well, very likely totally bending and disabling the drive sprocket, and thus disabling the t-34 to the point where it would have out of action for a week if it didnt get knocked out right after the ramming. lastly, russian armor had a tendency to flake off violently when hit with tank rounds, and this could have posed a problem even just ramming. it would have cut up the crew. granted im not sure of this, but its just some more reasons why a tank commander would probably have been less willing to ram a 60 ton tiger.
i know what ur sayin gringe88 and it makes sence, but the sherman tracks stick out as far as the front plate too, and in that story about the irsh guardsman, the crew got out just fine (lol as in alive at least), and i know that the shermans lighter than the T34, but maybe the american craftsmanship held it together better on an impact like that, as opposed to the hastally buit T34 that might shred its crew? i dont know, but i definitly think i’ll build the T34’s track sprokes all totally bent and disabled now
A pic of a T and a little P in a fender bender, from here…
http://wio.ru/tank/t-34gal.htm
Well, the drive sprockets are in the back on the T-34’s, but I’m sure the Tiger wouldn’t be too good on the tracks anyway.
I’m thinking about how there are no seat belts in the tank, and the T-34 had basically zero padding anywhere. With any kind of forceful impact the tanks might be damaged a bit, but the crew is gonna be in for some serious hurt.
Definitely a sign of desperation, but what would you do if in the heat of the battle found yourself near a Tiger and your little old T-34 was out of ammo? You could run, but you aren’t gonna get far enough fast enough. You could ram it and try and disable it enough to get away or distract it long enough for a comrade to take it out…lot’s more T-34s than Tigers around.
If that sounds like an interesting scenario, then you need to get the book “The Last Citadel” by David L. Robbins. There’s a climatic scene where a T-34 rams a Tiger and…well, I won’t spoil it for you. Here’s an excerpt from the book…
http://www.davidlrobbins.com/novels/Last_Citadel/excerpt.html
Goatmonkey…I think this might be the page you saw on a Russian site about ramming with tanks…
http://pkka.narod.ru/ramming.htm
Here’s a bit from the page…
"On March 16, 1945 in the battle for the bridgehead on Oder Lt.Neljubov, running out of the shells, drove his T-34 into the Tiger in the sudden encounter.
Between these two cases were more than 160 reported cases of ramming. The tension and ferocity of battles during the war is now almost impossible to imagine.
The fight between Soviet and German tankers lasted, literally, to the last shell and even after that. When it was impossible to shoot because all shots were already shot or the tank was damaged, or the tactical situation left no other choice, many Soviet tankers rammed enemy tanks. In fact, the circumstances that could lead to the collision are too numerous to list. Just to name a few, lack of ammo, unexpected and sudden encounter with no time to load or reload the gun and many other causes and reasons."
Hound1 and Dwight Ta-ala great story and link. Here’s how the rammer in the Sherman, Sir John Gorman, looks now days…
…from the BBC story “Veterans get lotto cash to travel”…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3472233.stm
It’s a strange world we live in.