I am building the Dragon 1/45 Tri-plane right now and the directions call for the engine and the propeller to spin. Did the engine actually spin with the prop??? If so, how did it work?? I’ve never heard of this…[D)]
I’m not sure, but it think in some wwi planes the engine did actualy spin, causing thje excessive vibration.
Certain fighters had a engine that actually did rotate along with the propeller, such as (I beleive) the spad along with a whole host of others. It was quite a common thing for the engine to be fastened to the prop back then.
This was a rotary engine. The engine did rotate with the propeller. Fuel/castor oil was fed in the crankcase and there was no real throttle. The engine speed was controlled by a blip switch that would cut the throttle. They were popular because they had a high power to weight ratio of the time but since your spinning a large weight you had to deal with large gyroscopic forces. This is the main reason most aircraft with rotaries could turn on a dime in one direction.
Do some internet searches for Le Rhone and Oberrursel rotaries, lots of information out there on these!
Heres a good visualization of a Gnome rotary. Notice how there is no intake valve on the head, its in the top of the piston. There is only one exhaust valve right at the top of the head.
http://www.keveney.com/gnome.html
Note a rotary engine really isn’t the engine Mazda employs. This type of engine is actually a Wankel engine.
A good example is the Sopwith Camel or Pup. The Spad series was equipped with a water cooled V engine and handled a lot better.
YES. For rotary engines, the propeller is bolted to the crankcase and the whole assemblage rotates about a crankcase firmly bolted to the airframe. On the plus side, no flywheel or auxillary cooling was required. However, the lubrication system was “total loss” resulting in oil consumption being a large fraction of fuel consumption. Also, gyroscopic effects made it easier to make a 270º left turn rather than even to try a right turn.
More here:
http://www.keveney.com/gnome.html
Oh, and by the way, these engines were buttery smooth in operation, with minimal vibration (at least for an engine mounted rigidly to a very light airframe without the benefit of elastic mounts)
Phil Schenfeld
Actually the blip switch grounded certain cylinder’s spark plugs. My understanding is that you didn’t shut off the cylinders for very long as the engine continued to rotate (albeit slower) and to suck in the fuel/castor oil/air mixture and would foul the plugs very quickly.
On a side note, I remember listening to a conversation between my father and one of my grandmothers neighbors who had apparently been a mechanic during WW I. He said something to the effect that the exhaust from the gas/castor oil mixture made the pilots “very, very regular”.
Yes… I’ve seen a WW I video on a TV show… in The History Channel… this is like the Red Baron’s plane, and it can be clearly seen… the engine rotates…
Clerget made a rotating engine. Matter of fact, Hasegawa made a 1/8 scale model of this engine, complete with engine stand! This was the first kit I built after my return to modeling, and the first kit I entered in a model contest. I think the kit has been OOP for about 20-25 years or so…
Gip Winecoff
Gip, you took the words right out of my mouth. I found three of those Clerget’s in a WalMart for $1 apiece in the mid-80s, and at that time they were about 12 bucks retail. I bought them all, knowing I had absolutely no use for them, and wound up giving them away. They were, in fact, the engine parts that went in one of the 1/8 scale Hasegawa Museum Series models (I forget which one) and the engine kits, though mostly plastic, came with thick brass push rods (about 1/8 inch in diameter), which made the boxes sort of heavy for their small size. Hasegawa also made two other engine kits, the Le Rhone being one, but the Clerget was the only one I ever owned. If you find one, hang on to it, because collectors seem to like them and you might make a good trade for something you can build.
TOM
If I remember my history correctly didn’t the Neuport series have rotating engines also?
There is an organization in New York State that operates a series of WWI aircraft including one or two with rotary engines. the pilots confirm the story about the castor oil mist having an urgent “cleansing” effect so that they take very few bows after a flight demonstration!!!
I cannot remember the name of the organization that does the flight demos all summer long but it is located in New Yorks “wine country”. They put on a fantastic show and the aircraft are mostky restored originals, including a DR-1 tri-plane. If you want to see WWI aircraft in their natural elment this is one of the best I’ve ever seen. rangerj
actually, hows does castor oil make you do the 50 yard dash ?
That would be Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome north of New York City…
There are numerous stories about how the pilots constantly suffered from the trots during the Great War because of ingesting so much castor oil that blew back in their faces. And yes, the Nieuport had a rotary engine. A Hispano, if I’m remembering correctly, and that’s always in doubt, but it was the engine with the big brass, octopus-looking manifold in the front.
A footnote: Eduard’s Limited Edition kits, and many of the Profipak kits, have a generic engine, since all WW I aircraft used only about four different radial engines. So the same little sprue of engine parts appears in each kit. It’s not a bad thing, because it is so well rendered. The extremely fine cooling fins have been done exquisitely, and that damnable seam that destroys the cylinders on most radial engines in models has been made virtually invisible. The also include a separate PE part for the push rods, and the brass manifold is a beautiful molding itself. So, I don’t mind that generic engine one bit. Oh, and they also include the original kit engine on the big sprues as well.
TOM
that is correct : the Nieuport fighters had either the LeRhone or Clerget rotary engines…
& the Oberursel was a German copy of the LeRhone,
but the German pilots preferred the LeRhone & would often salvage the engines from downed French a/c 2 use in their planes…
i don’t believe there r any restored original Dr.1s…
i heard all of them were destroyed after ww1, so the ones flying today r all replicas…
not that i’m an expert, but i have been researching Nieuport & Fokker fighters l8ly…
HTH,
frosty[:)]
Go up to Olde Rhinebeck if you want to see them in action. Ain’t nothing like the sputtery roar of a Sopwith Camel running up in a cloud of castor oil smoke.
Note the spinning engine on Rhinebeck’s Nieuport 10:
http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/aircraft/Nieuport%2010.htm#Nieuport
btw, the SPADs had a liquid-cooled Vee engine, not a rotary
CAmel question: Did the F1 have shoulder belts for the pilot?
I’ve spent hours and hours on the web, but haven’t been able to find a decent photo of the cockpit, so I put the question to my betters.
Wess Rodgers
Albuquerque, NM
Here you go Wess; Yes it had typical British shoulder harness.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Bri/SopCamel/index.html
Also for you engine nuts heres a bit of fun on the WWI type of stuff. Just scroll down to the Engine catagory and makes your choices.
http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/index.html
Go get em frostygirl!!!