Sotar History

[Don_Wheeler]

I was curious about the Badger Sotar 2020. It looks so different from other Badger models that I suspected it might have been a purchased design rather than being done in-house. So I e-mailed Ken Schlotfeldt. Ken answered my questions and said I could share the information. So I will.

The Sotar was completely designed by Badger. It incorporates two Badger patents; the easy-access needle removal and the drop-in micro tip. The patents were issued in 1995. It was created to compete with the Iwata Micron. When it was introduced in 1996, it was sold as a product of the Sotar Airbrush Company. Badger hid their ownership because they thought people might not try it due to the fact that many considered Badger a maker of “hobby” airbrushes. They wanted it to be similar to the relationship of Acura to Honda. They have since decided to market it as a Badger product, which it is.

The drop-in tip is now used in the Renegade series of airbrushes.

Has anyone here used one? If so, what did you think of it?

Don

[keilau]

In an earlier post, some one also quoted Ken Schlotfeldt saying that the Renegade is a better design at a fraction of the cost. Would you ask Ken if he was quoted correctly about the Renegade? (I cannot link the original quote at westcoastaribrush.com which is down now.)

[Don_Wheeler]

You can see some comparisons of the Sotar and Renegades here.

Don

[brickshooter]

I’ve been trying to get my fingers on one for years. But it’s been out of my price range, and I can never find any used ones. The few that shows up on Ebay or Craigslist generally gets gobbled up pretty quickly.

As I understand it, some of the top professionals use the Renegades for general purpose, then switch to the sotar for finishing touches (detail work). The Iwata crowds do the same, using the HPC for general purpose and finshing up with a Micron.

I hear that unlike the Renegade needles, the Sotar needle is nearly indestructible.

[Don_Wheeler]

I’ve been trying to get my fingers on one for years. But it’s been out of my price range, and I can never find any used ones. The few that shows up on Ebay or Craigslist generally gets gobbled up pretty quickly.

Check this page out. I don’t know anything about them, but the price is good.

Don

[brickshooter]

Oh my God. That’s great!

Thanks Don.

I’m getting one when I get my tax refund.

BTW, is the seller trustworthy?

[keilau]

In an earlier post, some one also quoted Ken Schlotfeldt saying that the Renegade is a better design at a fraction of the cost. Would you ask Ken if he was quoted correctly about the Renegade? (I cannot link the original quote at westcoastaribrush.com which is down now.)

I found the quote that I was thinking about at another site, the airbrushtech web site, comparing Renegade vs. Sotar.

[Don_Wheeler]

BTW, is the seller trustworthy?

I have no idea. I’ve never dealt with them. Look at their About Us page. Apparently they have some sort of deal with Badger. You could e-mail Badger and ask if they are legit. Please come back and let us know how it works out.

Don

[keilau]

You can see some comparisons of the Sotar and Renegades here.

Don

Don, I read it and am still confused.

As for the paint tip / needle size, on the gravity and side feed, it is “ultra fine” at .21mm. This falls between the Sotar’s fine .19mm and medium .25mm, which is what I have been using. This produces a linear airflow angle of 6°. The bottom feed is fine at .33mm, which is larger than the Sotar large of .31mm and has a linear airflow angle of 6.5°. While .5° degrees may not seem like much, in use it is quite a big difference. While being able to quickly achieve fine lines with the fine tip, the fine tip produced distinctly soft-pencil thick lines.

Which airbrush/nozzle has a 6° flow angle and which 6.5°? What is the significance of a 0.5 degree difference?

Badger seems to be the only manufacturer discuss this “linear airflow angle” term, but they did not define it nor show how it was measured. Any other manufacturer used this term?

[Don_Wheeler]

Don, I read it and am still confused.

As for the paint tip / needle size, on the gravity and side feed, it is “ultra fine” at .21mm. This falls between the Sotar’s fine .19mm and medium .25mm, which is what I have been using. This produces a linear airflow angle of 6°. The bottom feed is fine at .33mm, which is larger than the Sotar large of .31mm and has a linear airflow angle of 6.5°. While .5° degrees may not seem like much, in use it is quite a big difference. While being able to quickly achieve fine lines with the fine tip, the fine tip produced distinctly soft-pencil thick lines.

Which airbrush/nozzle has a 6° flow angle and which 6.5°? What is the significance of a 0.5 degree difference?

Badger seems to be the only manufacturer discuss this “linear airflow angle” term, but they did not define it nor show how it was measured. Any other manufacturer used this term?

He says the bottom feed has an angle of 6.5 degrees. That would be the Rage. The Spirit and Velocity would be the 6 degree angle. I have no idea how they determined this or how significant it is. For the way I paint, it’s purely academic. The author is active on the Hyperscale forum. If you joined, you could e-mail him and ask. Or, you could e-mail Badger and ask them. As for the Rage, if you look at my Renegade Rage page you can see what it can do in my clumsy hand. The author says soft-pencil thick lines, and I think that’s about right.

Don

[Bgrigg]

Freakflex is ADB Inc. and is either owned by Badger or a partner with them. If you hit the “Buy Now” button on the Renegade page at Badger, you end up at ABD. I think you could trust them!

[Bgrigg]

I had asked Ken about Linear Flow Angles a while ago, and this is what he sent me:

The linear air flow angle is the angle from the tip of the needle to where the needle reaches its OD. The finer this angle, the finer the line the airbrush will produce. Many people have been trained to think that the fineness is determined by the paint tip size, when in fact it is more determined by the linear air flow angle as it dictates how material flows off the needle.

I suspect the need for a steeper angle on the Rage is due to the slightly higher air pressure requirements.

[Don_Wheeler]

I had asked Ken about Linear Flow Angles a while ago, and this is what he sent me:

The linear air flow angle is the angle from the tip of the needle to where the needle reaches its OD. The finer this angle, the finer the line the airbrush will produce. Many people have been trained to think that the fineness is determined by the paint tip size, when in fact it is more determined by the linear air flow angle as it dictates how material flows off the needle.

I suspect the need for a steeper angle on the Rage is due to the slightly higher air pressure requirements.

Thanks for sharing that Bill. I checked the angle on the Rage needle and it does indeed appear to be 6.5 degrees. In case you’re wondering, I used two pieces of paper, a good protractor, and a magnifying glass.

My guess about the reason the Rage angle is bigger is that the tip (nozzle) diameter had to be bigger to handle the siphon feed. And, the taper had to be changed to keep the same length of needle exposure. Which is essentially the same reason you gave.

Don

[Bgrigg]

spoken like a true engineer! [;)]

I’ve done some surfing around the Freakflex website and came across this tidbit of information:

ABD, Inc. has a consumer direct service agreement with the manufacturer for this product, for product support, please contact:

and goes on to provide the contact information for Badger directly.

In fact if you go to http://www.abdcorp.com/ you’ll see four different website addresses: Renegadeairbrushseries.com; thayerandchandlerairbrush.com; modelflexpaint.com; and of course freakflexpaint.com. All are Badger products. My guess is Badger has set this up as a means of selling direct to consumers, without involving Badger directly, and placing an order here, causes the product to be shipped from Badger to the end user.

[Dr_Faust]

spoken like a true engineer!

I’ve done some surfing around the Freakflex website and came across this tidbit of information:

ABD, Inc. has a consumer direct service agreement with the manufacturer for this product, for product support, please contact:

and goes on to provide the contact information for Badger directly.

In fact if you go to http://www.abdcorp.com/ you’ll see four different website addresses: Renegadeairbrushseries.com; thayerandchandlerairbrush.com; modelflexpaint.com; and of course freakflexpaint.com. All are Badger products. My guess is Badger has set this up as a means of selling direct to consumers, without involving Badger directly, and placing an order here, causes the product to be shipped from Badger to the end user.

spoken like a true engineer!

I’ve done some surfing around the Freakflex website and came across this tidbit of information:

ABD, Inc. has a consumer direct service agreement with the manufacturer for this product, for product support, please contact:

and goes on to provide the contact information for Badger directly.

In fact if you go to http://www.abdcorp.com/ you’ll see four different website addresses: Renegadeairbrushseries.com; thayerandchandlerairbrush.com; modelflexpaint.com; and of course freakflexpaint.com. All are Badger products. My guess is Badger has set this up as a means of selling direct to consumers, without involving Badger directly, and placing an order here, causes the product to be shipped from Badger to the end user.

BGrigg

With all due respect I think it’s about time you show them forum one of your AB paint jobs.

car plane camo whathaveyou . But come on walk the walk dude let’s see what you can do with youuur 20 yrs. exp.

Again with respest and if you choose to not show a pic of your work ikinda understand.

Thanks Dr

[Bgrigg]

Faust,

Number one. I don’t have 20 years experience. Never stated I did.

Number two. I don’t have to do anything I don’t want to do.

Number three. You picking a fight? What for? Nothing better to do?

[Dr_Faust]

Faust,

Number one. I don’t have 20 years experience. Never stated I did.

Number two. I don’t have to do anything I don’t want to do.

Number three. You picking a fight? What for? Nothing better to do?

nope show the forum what ya got. walk the walk

[Bgrigg]

[Dr_Faust]

!http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/astr8shooter/Smilies/donotfeedthetroll2.jpg

Funny how this is your final retort. oh well you the man!

[Don_Wheeler]

With all due respect I think it’s about time you show them forum one of your AB paint jobs.

car plane camo whathaveyou . But come on walk the walk dude let’s see what you can do with youuur 20 yrs. exp.

Again with respest and if you choose to not show a pic of your work ikinda understand.

Thanks Dr

I guess I don’t get it. We’re discussing Sotars, and out of the blue you want Bgrigg to show his paint jobs. Why? If you’ve got a problem with Bill you could start a new thread or even a one to one conversation. I don’t see where Bill’s skill with an airbrush makes any difference anyway. If you want to see how bad I am you can see samples on my website.

Don