I’m going to finish my Tamiya A-1 in USAF Vietnam colours with the black underside. I’ve seen a few pics of this scheme on the net, one of them shows a dark grey, not black, underside. Anyone know what colour this was? Anyone know how common it was to use this instead of black?
Also, anyone know how the temporary black paint was applied? Brushed or sprayed? Bought a new airbrush and want to get the best out of it - might go for FS36622 instead if the black paint was brushed on.
Anyone know how “temporary” it was? Some of the pictures show it got pretty well weathered - but just as much as the uppersurface colours
Finally, what markings underneath? If I was painting a temporary black underside for night camouflage, I’d leave out national insignia if it included white.
Papalazerblue: The Special Operations Squadrons that flew the A-1 out of Nakon Phnom Thailand painted the bottoms gloss black because they did most of their “sneaky” stuff at night. Pretty much the same reason SAC painted the Dog model B-52s black on the bottom.
When viewed from above during the day, the green/green/brown camo colors were very difficult to see against the jungle. When viewed from below at night, the gloss black was virtually invisible.
My 60 year old memory of something that happened 30+ years ago is a little fuzzy. (OK, a whole lot fuzzy). The black was usually sprayed on and I don’t remember any national insignia on the bottom side. As you mentioned, white stands out way too much and the black stencil outline against a black background wouldn’t make much sense.
Jim Sullivan’s “Skyraider In Action” and Lou Drendel’s “Air War In South East Asia, Vol I” both have pictures of Spec Ops A-1s
Yardbird78
Some of the a1’s had thier undersides painted black (sprayed) after 1969 and later. As I understand it, they were SOS birds. As I see it , USAF SOS birds did carry the national insignia right around the speed brakes, but were very small. It wouldn’t make sence that they would carry the insignia on a black background.
Instead of a direct flat black, you could try floquill’s scale black for a bit of weathering
I was stationed at NKP '68-70 with the 56th SOWg and the 22nd -602 SOS. A1’s were grey bellied for SAR missions(Sandy) and those used with ‘Tropic Moon’ and ‘Sky Spot’ were sprayed black with no insignia on the bottoms. Also present were T-28’s (all black), C-123j’s (Candle Stick) and A-26’s (Nimrod). 22nd SOS (Zorro)) flew night intradiction missions with 'Blue Room A-1E’s and had black bottoms and wing mounted infrared TV cameras along Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Now I’ll have to kill you all.[8]
post rescueddd,
what about the T28 sos, did they use the SEA camo upside and black undersides, gloss black or matt black??? any other camo, and the tail codes TO are correct?
I like that idea of doing a black-bottomed First Air Commando bird. The special ops planes of the both the AF and the Navy in Vietnam are undermodeled, IMHO, probably because what they did was underphotographed in that so very much documented war. The navy used some very unusually camoflaged OP-2 Neptunes for both interdiction work and for seeding the Ho Chi Minh Trail with those sound sensors disguised as bushes in the Igloo White program, and the only model of one I ever saw was, in fact, in an early issue of FSM some 16-17 years ago, I believe. They also used OV-10 Broncos for Special Ops. And in the case of the Neptunes some of the planes were in a bright lizard green camo scheme, others in black, white and gray disruptive schemes.
Aside from the occasional A-36, we also don’t see many First Air Commandos models from WW II, in my opinion.
BTW, does anyone remember the name of that sort-of-famous memoir by the A-1 pilot who flew with that SO unit out of “Naked Fanny”? It is one of the best war memoirs I’ve ever read, and I read it twice years apart, and now the title escapes me. But it’s the only one I know of written from a Skyraider pilot’s POV. It is also illustrated some, as I recall.
Tom
I recall that the dark gray undersided Skyraiders was “gunship” gray. I think there were some A-1s that were painted overall in gunship gray with white or light gray markings. As stated above the SO aircraft are not very well documented.
I specifically remember seeing two Skyraiders with black bottoms and SEATO camo topside. They provided ground support for a hot extraction. I do not know where they came from, but was very glad to see them. Once the Hueys were clear of the LZ they peeled off and disappeared. I do not remember seeing any national insignia. But, as stated above the memory ain’t what it used to be! rangerj
I believe the “gunship gray” color you remember was probably Aircraft Gray, also known as ADC Gray, FS 36473, if memory serves. It was used on the earliest T-28s sent to SE Asia along with some Skyraiders that arrived at about the same time, and even an occasional A/B-26K, according to some published accounts, as well as film and color photos I’ve seen. In the secret war in Laos and Cambodia, armed but unmarked T-28s were flown by U.S. and indigenous pilots, often directed by Raven FACs, and these planes were all over, except for a black anti-glare panel, Aircraft Gray. The Raven FACs planes that I’ve seen were also painted in the this same ADC or Aircraft gray, though I think more often it should be used as 16473, because this paint was more often applied in its glossy form than in the flat color. It is the color all of the USAF interceptors were painted (in later years, these were almost exclusively ANG planes after the last F-106 retired from the active USAF inventory in 1983 or 84) before the modern F-16 schemes began to appear on the remaining F-4s in the inventory in the mid-late '80s.
Someone is liable to correct me here, but I think Gunship Gray is a relatively new color on USAF a/c. I don’t know if the pigment is new to the FS color guide, but its use by the Air Force did not come into being until, I think, the 1980s, when it was first put on the AC-130’s.
The book you asked about is My Secret War by Richard S. Durry. I’ve read it a couple times myself and it’s a good read. He really made you feel you were right there with him. Hope Tamiya will make the slab sided A1-E one day.
I saw an A-1 (probably an “H”) on the ramp at Bien Hoa Air Base VN in the fall of 1966 that I have never seen again, photos or otherwise. It was different in that it had the two tone green camo but had a burgandy (sort of) paint in lieu of the brown. The bottom surfaces were painted flat black. There were no national or squadron markings anywhere on the aircraft .
I’ve always (38 years now) wanted to know were that aircraft was assigned - who operated it and where it was based. I figured it was based in Thailand, Cambodia or Laos but I could never pin it down.
If someone could help me on this I would appreciate it. A source of photos would be a big help.