I just sign up for FSM forum. I have an intrest in old Sailing Ships (1600s, 1700s, 1800s) with cross arm sails and would like to buy a set of plans to build one. One of my other hobbies is woodworking and would like to try scratch building the ship from a set of plans.
Any good ship plans links?
I hope to be ready to build it on the next “Build a ship project” [8D]
Welcome to our little house of horrors. Not too late yet to say Happy New Year as well.
You have set yourself a high bar indeed, it would be easier to answer your question if you have a specific ship in mind.
Actual ship plans are available from a couple of places; Taubman’s plan service is probably the best. They are on line, or you can link to them from the modelwarships.com site.
I sort of get the impression from your message that this will be something new for you. I highly recommend reading a couple of reference books on this subject before you begin; over 80% of square rigged ship models are never finished.
Try “Building Ship Models from Scratch” by Edwin Leaf to get you started.
I am sure there are others here who can offer more advice; please let us know how you are making out.
Good luck,
Bruce
Dbl6, Welcome to the Asylum. I don’t do sailing (or wooden) ship’s (to much work for me). But I’d listen to Bruce, He’s the local sailing/wooden ship expert. Good luck.
I like that…welcome to the asylum…kinda fitting, don’t you think?
Tim is right, Bruce and Jake are our resident sailing ship experts…
If you ever decide to build a Fletcher, let me know…or a U-boat, or a Schnellboote, or… 
Jeff Herne
Modelwarships.com
I’ve been using the “welcome to the asylum” line for quite a while in the intro section. It’s VERY FITTING. I just consider myself more the expert on the modern Navy ships (being a 9 yr veteran), Although I like to pretend I know about WW2 ships.[:p][:p][:p]
[#welcome] to the FSM forums. I have not built any ships before, so I can’t offer any help. The forums have a large number of members that will be able to help you out. Good luck and enjoy the site.
mark956
You’re really heading for the big time. How much modelling experience have you because I would recommend starting with a kit of such a ship first and moving upwards from there. I built a wooden schooner about 25 years ago from a Billings Boat kit and its not a simple job, its totally different to a plastic or multi-media kit requiring specialist tools eg plank benders.There are a number of plans available for scratch building. Try www.modelboats.co.uk they produce (or used to) a plans handbook. They also produce quite a good model boat magazine, and from the advertisers you will be able to find what you want. I’m looking at a 1987 issue of that magazine and the quality of the square rigger kits offered at that time is still stunning , no question your wood working skills would be required.
Yes, I am new to ship buildling but not to modeling. It is sad to hear that “over 80% of square rigged ship models are never finished.” I am not one to give up on a project. Bruce, as you recommended, I purchased “Building Ship Models from Scratch” by Edwin Leaf this morning from Amazon. The copy I purchased is used “in new condition” for $8.81. I looked around on the web this morning and have decided to tackle the USS Constitution. [8D]
Taubman’s plan service (www.taubmansonline.com/cgi-bin/store/shop.cgi) is a great website but I didn’t find plans for the Constitution so am still looking.
I have many years experience scratch building models. I started kit building when I was about 10 yrs old and turned 54 this past summer. I have modeled Trains, Planes and Automobiles both stactic display and R/C but this will be my first Ship. Another hobby I have is woodworking. I have a full shop and have enjoyed woodworking for more than 40 years. I have a steam box and have bent wood for other projects but a “plank bender” - hmmm… is this a special tool or can I just make a jig?
Thanks to all for the warm welcome!
Dave:
Glad to hear you are persistent. Welcome to the fraternity of wooden ship modelers. The rewards upon completion of such a project are like nothing else you will experience in modeling, however this is balanced with frustrations orders of magnitude larger than any you have experienced as well. BTW, out of curiosity where are you from?
Nicholma has some good advice with his link as well. I subscribe to “Model Boats” as well as “Ships in Scale” and they are both excellent publications.
Even if you are scratchbuilding please don’t overlook using commercial fittings where these are accurate and appropriate. The grief they will save cannot be measured. Try “The Dromedary” or “White Ensign Models” for these.
As to the “Constitution” there are many here with more experience of that ship than I so I am sure all your questions will be asked and answered in due course. I am surprised Taubman’s doesn’t list this ship however Mr. T is over 80 and so some of his plans may not be listed on line; he also has more than one list. Try phoning them; also ask for “President” or “United States” as these are sisters and the hull form and general arrangement will be the same. Alternate sources may be the Smithsonian or the ship’s own web site.
Some other builders here may be able to recommend wooden kits of this vessel, and for a first effort I highly recommend a kit. Trust me, this will take nothing away from your efforts.
As to specialized tools, if you have a steam box then you won’t need a plank bender. I would hold off buying other special tools until you get to the point where you feel you really need them. I usually manage with jigs or existing tools.
Have you a scale in mind? I would suggest a large scale; 1:96 or 1:48 if you have the room for it. This will let you show the details without having to work with too many microminiature pieces.
Since you are serious I will also recommend one more good reference: “Historic Ship Models” by Wolfram zu Mondfeld. This goes into much more detail of period ship modeling, and others on this site can attest that it is my ‘Bible’. Of importance in the first chapter is a checklist of questions which you should ask yourself to be sure you are ready.
Most ship models don’t get finished because the builder gets frustrated at the amount of time and detail work as compared to any other type of model. For example, to build Constitution you will be constructing 44 model cannon, three model masts, at least two model ships’ boats, etc. and all of these are complete models in themselves. If I were building this ship I would budget 3 years to complete this model.
One last recommendation and I’ll sign off. Please consider a smaller ship for your first effort, like a single masted fore and aft rig like a yawl or schooner. My first wooden ship was a sailing dory. I got to make a lapstrake hull on a form, scratchbuild fittings, rig a mast, and do all the other things you need to do on a larger ship with a fraction of the time/frustration investment. You will find this to be a great learning experience, a chance to test your skills and tools, and if you screw up then you haven’t ruined your main event.
Hope I didn’t ramble too much or put you off, that is not my intent.
Good luck and regards,
Bruce
Welcome, happy New Year, and WOW! You really love woodworking, then you found a great hobby. Question is, what type of model to build? Their are carved out hulls, half hulls, bread board, frame up and plank on , double plank on over either frame or carved hull, plank and glass?? The question will be on how to trans-scribe the plan to the type of model your building if using shiwright plans. Your library seems to have a lot of old books about building models from scratch and amuature boat building. A lot of these books I used were written in the 1930’s to the 1950’s and go into detail about how to build from shipwright plans and pictures. This is where I started. Then look into getting a set of plans of a simple boat like what was suggested. I’d start by building a hull by carving it or bread board build up out of boxwood and give a try at planking it.
Scott
Born in So. Cal, 1949, I lived 11-1/2 years in Europe and now live (retired) in AZ.
Bruce, I don’t think you “ramble” too much. I enjoy reading your posts.
So what you’re saying is that I should use the shallow end of the pool, learn to tread water before I climb to the top of the high board and dive into the deep water. [:D] Sounds like good advice! It will give me a chance to see how it all goes together.
After looking around I think I would like to do 1:96. The Constitution would be 30+?? inches long which will fit beautifully on the firepalce mantel.
Medically retired all I have is time until my name is called up yonder. [angel]
Three years ago (Jan '01) the dr., but what do they know, gave me 5-7 years. Sounds like I still have plenty of time [:)]
Scott, I like to model to as close to prototypical as possible without going overboard. So what I have been thinking of doing is frame and plank. You’re right, woodworking has always been my heart throb. I just finished a 4 drawer oak jewelry cabinet (10"W. x 12"H. x 8"D.) for my wife’s Christmas present. The cabinet is all joints-n-glue no screws or nails. It took about 3 weeks to complete.
I am excited about getting started on my ship but every time I come to this forum I get really excited about getting started!!!
Since you sound like a master woodworker, then building a frame up won’t be a problem. Planking takes practice, learning to shape and fit each plank, IMHO, will be a rewarding challange for you since the size and contour will be different. I like your idea by scratch building because, when I started plank-on, I used kits, but because of my perfectionist attitude, I ended up producing 4 times as many planks than required to get the perfect, seamless, fit.
You also have a choice for even more practice; single or double plank on frame. With the latter, you plank on an overlay of thin multicolored strips. The base planks are for support. I love this type because you can use so many different colors of wood and really make an impressive display.
A planking machine (hand held plank bender that looks like a curling iron) is alright for planks up the 1/8" thick and 1/4" wide but you have to use the vinegar and water solution soak method which I find a pain to do . A jig made out of plywood and roller bearings can be used if you use a steam box with better results. ( This is where the books on amature boat building comes in handy)
Building the frame is going to teach you a whole new language. I still don’t remember all the terms.
If you already have a planer, jigsaw, bandsaw, sander, miter, and lathe, you can really go to town with scratch building.
Scott
Scott, which of your 1930-50’ books would you consider the most informative (Title, author, date) and I’ll check some of our upmarket old book/second hand book shops.
Cheers
Dave:
Thank you for the compliments. You have chosen a good scale for your Constitution, I think. I like your alliteration about diving in at the shallow end, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed, and if you build that first ship in 1:96 you can display it alongside Constitution (may need a bigger mantle though).
When you get to building the hull, I suggest leaving the lower gunports closed; this will simplify your hull construction by allowing solid frames up to the upper deck, rather than trying to open up the interior. The suggestion of using double planking is a good one, and is a method used by most modelers. The inner planking will provide an opportunity to learn. Once it is done cover the entire hull with wood filler and then sand most of that away to ensure an absolutely perfect hull for the final outer planking.
BTW, I started woodworking myself a couple of years ago, presently working on a set of bedroom furniture using solid pine (also no nails or screws except on the drawer sliders). I have the headboard, 2 night tables, a blanket chest, an armoire completed and am working on the dresser right now.
Up here near Edmonton I have lots of time for indoor activities right now, it is about -20 or so and snowing and blowing up a bit.
Regards,
Bruce
Woodworking is fun! I built all my Mom’s furniture, ranch western style in pine, some of which is nearing 40 yrs old. I built my brother and his bride’s bedroom suite in poplar as a wedding gift 10 yrs ago. I built my sister a formal dining room table, chairs and a china hutch in maple and a few other things in cedar. And of course all the furniture in my family room and bedroom I’ve built, all in oak.
Bruce, Sorry to hear it is so warm up there. It was a chilly 60° here yesterday and the weather folks say that by next week it should warm up some. I guess “last week” was our winter here in AZ, it got down to freezing twice. [:D]
Well back to the subject…
Yesterday, I was reading about double planking. I am glad to hear that I am not the only one that thinks this is a good way to go. [:)]
Now I have another question: Due to medical issues I am no longer allowed to drive so 99.9% of my hobby supplies come from internet purchases. Being new to ship building I would like to ask you ship builders, without starting a big debate, IYO which internet store is best for buying a wooden ship kit ? And IYO which namebrand(s) do you recommend and which ones should I stay away from?
I use ALL of them. I believe in sourcing for the best deal. Just do a Google Search for Model Ship Suppliers and bookmark them. I’ve had good and bad with then all, so I use them all.
Here is a few:
Model Expo (Big sale on now)
Dromedary
Great Models
Internet Hobbies
Tower
Just a few out of a hundred…
I’ll check my library tonight for the exact titles and authors of those books. I have four of them that are not bad.
BTW - I’m thinking of building a new kitchen for my wife. She’s thinking pine or ash. I want to build the cabinets myself since I think that is the fun part. I’ll hire out the drywall part. Any good sources for hardware on the internet?
Scott
If you want rustic “Ranch Style” cabinets then Pine would work. Ash is a harder wood than Pine and will be more difficult to work with. You’d have to keep the tools sharp. Take a look at Birch, it is easier to work with than Ash and doesn’t have the knots in it like Pine.
Here’s a couple links that might help
WoodZone.com http://www.wood-worker.com/properties.htm
Kitchens.com http://www.kitchens.com/Remodeling-And-Design/Products-and-materials/cabinets/manufacturers.htm
… But Birch is more expensive, at least up here it costs about 3x as much as pine.
For on line hardware I would search out “Rockler” or “Lee Valley”. Both have great selections and all the odd ball stuff for accessories like cutlery inserts, drop down recipe book holders, etc.
I am going to be visiting Geat Hobbies in a day or so and I’ll see what boat kits they have, last time I was there I spied a couple that might be of interest but I can’t recall the names (senior moment). Great Hobbies is also on line, but mostly RC planes.
Regards,
Bruce
PS to the above …
Lee Valley also has kits for making strip canoe models. I have seen the finished product and they are something else, albeit a bit off topic …
Bruce
Thanks guys[:D] I have also been toying with the idea of building either a canoe or sailboat. I thought it would be fun to try 1:1 scale for a change. When the house is done of coarse.[^]
Scott