Seeking Information on the Academy Panzerkampfwagen IV Ausf. H/J + Italian Panzer IV Image

Modeling Subjects Armor
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Well, I’m sure there are funds somewhere! Since Trump donates his salary to charitable causes, perhaps we could apply… studying border security or something. [;)] Hey! Worth a shot!

No, I haven’t tried finding any photos on the same roll. The only reason I found this one is because it had the number at the bottom of the image. Wouldn’t know where to begin, and don’t know if the images are even in sequential order. Would be nice.

Gary

PS> Try typing something else into the search box, such as “Nettuno” and “1944” in the year. You get some interesting pictures (including our Panzer IV) that way.

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I’ve tried a bunch of keyword searches, all to no avail. This guy appears to be camera shy and a loner without any friends. I can’t even actually prove it was the 8th company of the 26th that operated here during Fischfang, only that armor of the 26th Pz. and 29th PzGr. was used here on the 18th of Feb, such are the limits of my resources.

Here’s the book we don’t have;

I did find some of his buddies after all. This pair from the 8/26th are seen months later KOed near Salerno, Sept. 14th, 1944

Note some important features; Older style drive sprockets?, (I can’t really tell), welded tubular idler, side hull vision port still present, (which our subject does not have), late-style tow coupling, the rear vehicle appears to still have smoke dischargers fitted…and they could use a new bucket. The camo appears to be a very faded and/or dusty set of thin hash-marks, similar to others I’ve seen. No C-hooks to be seen, or the bracket, which would help with the production date. Maybe they got stripped off, or not there to begin with. The balkenkreuz on the near vehicle appears to be partially obscured, as it lacks the higher contrast of the white areas compared to the rear vehicle’s cross.

And check this out! A colorized shot of his brother, 812, lost on July 17th, more than 150 miles north in Pontedera, near Pisa. (scroll down the page);

https://m.blog.naver.com/yumiun/220944184708

Other Panzer IV’s in the area are seen after the battle, in need of a tune-up and some minor body work;

“Don’t worry Captain, we’ll buff out those scratches later” - Spongebob

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Ixion> I had seen the book on the 26th PzDiv. but figured it was out of print. The photos are great, and I understand the 26th was just about wiped out in its retreat across the Po river. I suppose those are remnants of that retreat.

I did a little more Google driving, and have revised my estimate of where that Panzer IV photo was taken. I’m now leaning more towards the Via Pontina overpass that you posted earlier, though the road one and not the railroad overpass. I was looking at an earlier post where I first pointed out the Panzer IV at the overpass, and there were a couple of other photos of the German attack in February. This is the link.

https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/30/26-panzer-division/

I noticed that in the image of the Panthers, it’s obvious they are in a built up area as there are streetlamps on the side of the road (on the right). To the left, where the man is standing, if you zoom in you can just make out railroad tracks crossing the sideroad. The SR207 has a railroad running parallel to it from at least the Flyover up to Aprilia. This is only a rocks throw from the quarry you earlier ID’d as the site of the attack against the US 2/157th and 2/179th Infantry, 45th Div. Perhaps this was where the attack stopped.

On a second examination of the overpass of the Via Pontina, I discovered that on the other side of the highway, the brickwork (stonework) on the abutments are similar to that seen in the Panzer IV photo. You can get a street level view on Google. What to my mind helps strengthen this is since this is the area the railroad runs parallel to the highway, and this overpass is closest to the quarry, it seems more likely this is the one.

I will point out that the Panzer IV photo shows a straight across member for the overpass and not an arch. I think this is more typical of road construction than a railroad overpass (although the tunnel is half and half at the Via Pontina, one side of the road is straight, the other arched). Still, if the Panther photo and the Panzer IV photo were taken at the same time, and the column were halted near the battleground, it seems likely the Via Pontina overpass would be the one the Panzer IV photo was taken at.

Not a conclusive argument by any means, and too many “ifs, ands, buts”. I did try to identify the house seen in the Panther photo which is on a slight hill, but nothing conclusive. Anyway, that’s my latest thinking, and it may change tomorrow depending on the weather, which is cold and damp. [:D]

Gary

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Time to fire up the Storch and fly around some more. I’d think that villa with the Panthers might have a chance of still being around, but having the rail-line right next to the Panthers is telling. Probably not to many places were that occured.

Note that the Panthers are squeaky-clean, no mud at all and they are wearing their muzzle-covers, indicative of a prolonged road march and their relative distance from the front. Concerning the opening phase of Fischfang on the 16th, Anzio 1944 states; " The German infantry assaults were supported by Panzers that would sally out of “The Factory” (in eastern Aprilia), pummel the US trenches with gunfire, and then return to “The Factory” to replenish their ammunition." Need to go find “The Factory”, (shouldn’t be hard), and see what things in that area look like.

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I suspect that the dating on the Salerno caption is off by a year, and should be 1943, not 1944. Salerno was captured then, and by September of 1944 would have been a backwater. Naples had fallen to the Allies in October ‘43, and would soon be reopened as the prime supply port in that area. Those appear to be engineers checking for mines and UXO, which would be more likely in the immediate aftermath of the fighting, and not over a year later after the main forces had passed thru the area. The dirt on the tracks would likely have been washed off by a years worth of rains. Just some thoughts on that…

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Thanks for the date correction Stik. Good to have multiple eyes on the narrative, I’m so focused on trying to find things I’m not paying attention.

This vacant lot corresponds to the location of “The Factory” and looks like it fits the bill. Interesting that no one wants to build on the site, could there have been UXO leftover? Maybe it’s a memorial?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5910295,12.6552791,325m/data=!3m1!1e3

It’s only about 1.7 miles from the quarry positions of the 2/157th.

This overpass has the straight beam roof and the stone abutments, it even has the barely visible power pole in the correct location…and…if you squint really hard…the concrete cube/footing/ thing to the left of the power pole. Sure wish I could get a better view, just off the SR207 and about 3000 ft north of Via Pontina;

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6003024,12.6446411,58m/data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5997266,12.6457759,3a,75y,339.33h,67.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF8qCHYKXxsx0c33nePy7Yg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Best looking one so far, IMHO, and I’ve flown over a lot of track.

Hey! Look at the 3D view;

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5993686,12.6455286,59a,35y,326.72h,66.81t/data=!3m1!1e3

Note the ghostly structures on the tracks, just to the right of the crossing. This looks suspiciously like the objects in the photo. (although they could be “artifacts” of image processing, as some of the others nearby appear to be and why is it in the middle of the tracks?). Something is there, however seriously distorted/image layover. We are only a mile and a quarter from the quarry, not too close to get shot at while taking selfies, not too far away to need to put your muzzle-cozy on, I think I may have a winner here! [<:o)]

In order for our subject to approach to this rail-bridge, heading in a southerly direction, it would have passed through the large, (at that time flooded), farmer’s fields which lay to the north, hence our dogeared panzer’s personal hygiene problem.

Dang! there goes the junket to Italy! [:'(]

OK, I’m satisfied, next question please!

Your results (and conclusions) may vary, and that’s OK.

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This overpass is in “Campo di Carne” on the Nettunense, near Anzio

https://www.google.it/maps/place/Stazione+di+Campo+di+Carne/@41.5533345,12.6346513,436m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x13259810dadcc521:0x682af353fdeebcb0!8m2!3d41.5520879!4d12.6349762?hl=it

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How is your Pz IVH build progressing?

Sorry I am late to this thread, just subscribed.

I really like Panzer IV’s, especially the ‘Lang’ versions.

You’ve had great help already, I see. Just confirming that the vehicle in the photo is indeed a PZ IVH, manufactured by Nibelungen in June 1943.

The tank in the photo had these distinctive features, PZIVG drive units and their corresponding sprockets, an early ‘coke bottle’ shaped muzzle brake. The right side upper hull lacks a vision port, although the left side is still present (seen in another image), these were gradually deleted during early H production, but appear randomly as parts were used up at the factories.

The lower hull front plate is a 50mm plus a bolted on 30mm applique, the upper hull front plate is also 50mm plus bolted 30mm applique.

This vehicle predates the application of zimmerit.

Check out Craig Ellis at 8wheelsgood on facebook, he has done amazing detailed research on the Pz IV, and has several publications available.

Thank you