Yes, I believe you are correct on that.
Ok, good to to know. But just to be clear, it is a railroad bridge?
To me it looks like an overpass. The railroad appears to run through the left opening of the bridge (at least, to me).
Oh, and that image of the Panzer IV? I took the time to look it up in the Bundesarchiv using the listed number. It didn’t have much information except that it was taken in Italy - Bruckenkopf Nettuno (“bridgehead” which I assume means battle line). Here’s a link.
https://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/cross-search/search/_1548086110/
Upon studying that Panzer IV again, I must admit that it is a weather-worn, beaten up old tank! The mud guards are torn and twisted and it’s missing its left fender. Its seen better days. “Sunny Italy” has not been kind!
Gary
PS> Apparently this site does not like linking!
I’d have to look it up in my books. All I do remember is that there was a serious fight there during one of the German counterattacks on the Anzio beachhead. It was a critical defensive position.
It’s a road overpass with a rail line and road underneath. I just looked at some other images of it. I was just hoping it was a railroad overpass because that would make finding it a bit easier, A search of “The flyover” Anzio, shows other shots, including this present day Google Earth view;
So much for trying to compare this with 1944. [:XX]
I have to admit that I’m not up to speed on the Italian campaign, despite owning several books on it, including Kurowski’s 550 page; Battleground Italy 1943-45, which I obviously haven’t read… [:(DD]
I too checked the Anzio battlefield map and it shows that it was a road overpass.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-A-Anzio/maps/USA-A-Anzio-10.jpg
Labeled “first overpass” on the left side of the map. The railroad does run under the left-side tunnel. It is quite possible that the shot of the Panzer IV is the “Flyover”.
Gary
That our subject vehicle was photographed at “The Flyover”, (as I now know it was called), crossed my mind too, although trying to prove this based on a single photo now seems dubious at best. Did 26th Pz. ever reach this spot? More research is required. Having a date on this photo would really help!
Found this online, a view of the Flyover at a later period.
Gary
A map on page 26 of Osprey’s Anzio 1944, shows 26th Pz stationed to the east of Cisterna on Feb 1, 1944, about 10-12 miles ENE of The Flyover, also called the “First Overpass.”
I will say that it appears the brick work on the Flyover and the overpass in the Panzer IV photo are different, so I would say the Panzer IV photo was taken elsewhere. Similar design, however. That Google 3d view is interesting, and allowed me to look around the bridge as it appears in more recent times.
Gary
26th Panzer reaches the Flyover in the middle of a hellacious fight. A few panzers did make it past. But I doubt that the photo was taken then, if it was taken there…
here is a good write up on Anzio…
Yes, I agree. After looking at the brickwork in both photos, it’s obvious the Panzer IV is not at the Flyover. Have to look elsewhere. [:)]
Gary
On page 72 there is a statement on March 1st; “some PzKfw IV and Tiger tanks from the 26th Panzer Division which had captured a bridge southwest of Ponte Rotto.” Might this be our bridge?
Ok, too many towns and places in Italy with the same or similar names…[bnghead]
It said the fighting was near Carano;
This is about 5 miles NE of the Flyover.
Try googling Ponte Rotto and see what you get…[:@]
Ok, a map on page 70 clears this up. The Ponte Rotto mentioned doesn’t even exist on Google. It used to be on the Via Aprillia, about 2 miles SW of Cisterna. This is not our bridge either;
If we only had a date, it would make this hunt much easier!
Ok, this is a long shot, but follow me here: What if our slighty used and very muddy Panzer is passing under a road along a sunken railroad grade, (to minimize his exposure and stay out of the mud), on his way to the fight at The Flyover, which they did on Feb. 18th? Heavy winter rains had made the ground so soggy, “the Panzers were limited to the roads.”
The main axis of attack for the 26th Pz. during “Operation Fischfang” against the US 2/157th and 2/179th Infantry, 45th Div. was along the Via Anziate, which runs parallel to railroad tracks, and is now renamed the SR207, (which coincidentally, is the road passing under The Flyover). The 2/157th was “holed up in caves to the west of the Via Anziate”, the 2/179th was positioned to the east of the Via Anziate, about 3.5 km north of The Flyover. If you look on Google Maps, the western area is now a giant limestone quarry, (so much for the caves, [:'(] (I’m a caver and geologist)). If you follow SR207 (formerly the Via Anziate) north to Aprilia to where it crosses the Via Pontina, you will find this, just to the left of the intersection;
View from above;
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5883146,12.6351573,1143m/data=!3m1!1e3
This bridge is over a sunked railroad grade that heads straight towards the positions of the 2/157th, merely 2000ft to the SW, in the area of the present day quarry. Presumably the occupants of the caves, (now the quarry) would have to have retreated by the time the photo was taken, (or maybe the fight was still active, as the Panzer doesn’t have his muzzle cover on). These are the same railroad tracks seen in the photo passing under The Flyover. Certainly the overpass has been replaced long ago, but the geography, weather, timing and events all line up, along with acute angle of the intersection as evident in the photo. [^o)]
See pages 57-65, Anzio 1944, Osprey pub.
Ixion> Interesting observation. It is possible. I do note that these are under the Via Pontina, and this roadway has obviously gone through some extensive rennovations, so final ID may be impossible. I wanted to check some older maps to make sure there were tunnels there (if you haven’t already). I do note that there is actually an overpass for the Via Nettunense (SR207) just to the right of the overpass for the railroad. If you look from ground level through the tunnel you see the same angled abutments that you see in the Panzer IV image. Perhaps a holdover from an earlier structure? Both have certainly changed since the second world war, so its hard to tell.
I’ve been trying to identify (without much luck) the structures that you can see in the Panzer IV photo on top of the slope. It appears to be a building of some sort, but that’s just my interpretation.
One other thing I noticed, and I may just be seeing things, but if you look at the copy of the image that you supplied, it almost appears as if there may be a sign on the tunnel wall at the top of the sloped abutment (on the brickwork). It looks like some ID sign, and I think I can make out the letters “CH”, but perhaps my eyes are playing tricks.
I think February / Early March 1944 is a good guess for the date of the photo. Too bad we can’t find something on this hull number or Panzer IV “813”.
Gary
PS> While studying a map of the Anzio battlefield, I thought that perhaps the Via Pontina was a little close to the fighting, so as you stated about the 26th coming down SR207 I checked up along its route until I came to Campoleone di Lanuvio. There I saw that SR207 runs under a railroad overpass just south of the town. Using Google, I took a look at the tunnel and this is what it looks like:
Well, the brickwork certainly resembles the Panzer IV photo. The archway is different, but who knows what work has been done over the years. I did think that the structures I mentioned at the top of the slope might be concrete for railroad signs and signals. Nothing certain, so add it to the list of possible candidates. [:)]
Also, just to the left of this tunnel, there is another the railroad crosses. It opens onto the town and a field, but no road. I can’t get a good look at it, but it too does seem to have those sloped abutments from the Panzer IV photo. Another candidate.
Gary
Well, the ravages of time, war and new development have probably erased any definitive proof of our muddy Panzer’s passing long ago, but it’s fun to look! My main problem with the Campoleone di Lanuvio crossing is the apparently low ceiling compared to the Panzer photo. Let’s face it, it could be any number of tunnels in the area. I just found the coincidences of my study to be compelling, but of course, by no means conclusive.
As for the Fahrgestellnummer vs. deployments, that has yet to be investigated, but I’m pretty sure I don’t have that information, at least on Panzer IV’s. Oh well…
I do agree that the pursuit of a location is rather fun, if frustrating. I’ve done that with a few of my own old family photos with varying success. Oddly, I was going to say that the overpass shown in the Panzer IV photo seemed too low to be a railroad underpass. Such are the vagaries of opinion. [:)]
Oh, one thing the photo I posted of the overpass is that it does show that type of brickwork was being used in the area.
Gary
Upon reinspection, I think you’re right that the Tank+tunnel photo appears to be too small for a rail tunnel. Not enough headroom by the time you put him on a flatcar. So much for that theory. [:(] Unless we want to talk about possible telephoto lens distance compression effects or other conspiracies. [8-)]
I looked at the other locations up the road. They certainly are good candidates and show the same type of brick-work. My primary thought is that they aren’t far from the front. The riders seem more alert than merely posing for the PK photographer. That and the fact our muzzle is exposed, which it would not be on a long road march in the rain and mud. Those Panzergranate 40’s aren’t going to fly so great down a barrel full of grit.
My other question is this; If a train track is not involved, why the overpass instead of it being merely a road intersection? The Italian Autobahn, (Ha, ha), a spiffied-up Roman aquaduct or something of that nature? I don’t know, most of these roads at the time are more like goat paths than freeways. Half kidding about the aquaduct…[;)]
[:(DD] Duh…If they were rolling down a railroad line, there would be heavy soot on the overpass…no soot…clean and white in fact…[:^)] OK, maybe a train track on top then?
I’m no expert on Italian railroad tunnels or overpasses, so the height is something that is just a guess. Could be higher as you suggested due to a trick of the photograph. I did note the concrete structures at the top of the slope which seem more in character for a railroad than a roadway, but even that’s a guess.
I do wish I could get a better look at the overpass to the left of the one I posted. From a distance, it does have the sloped abutment like in the photo of the Panzer IV. I will say that I like it better than the one the SR207 runs under as I think the slope on the abutment is not steep enough, though the brickwork (stonework) is similar.
Let’s find some funds to take a research trip to Italy. Maybe apply for a Federal Grant to study Italian battlefield sites? [:D]
Gary
Riiiiggghhtt…[Y] Which shut-down Federal agency do we apply to for the funding again? [8-)]
I haven’t gone back to the Bundesarchiv to see what else might be on this roll of film, assuming anything? Have you looked?
I may be a total box of rocks here, but I can’t seem to figure out how to search sequentially on Bundesarchiv.de. [:(DD] Changing -06 to -07 doesn’t do the job.