I’m working on a kitbash following the ‘old’ FSM combo of a 251 w/ Pak 40 and while looking over the gun placement, it’s bracing and the interior layout I’m wondering just how did the driver reach his seat?
Realizing that there were the rear doors and that the crew often would climb in over the sides I just don’t see how the driver could reach his position? Mine will represent an ‘early’ field modified example so I have some flexibilty on how I brace the gun platform, place ammo storage and such but any prototype photos or even kit shots would help me to understand that dilemna.
Thanks in advance for the expertise and knowledge of these boards!!
The best reference I have to the interior of a “22” to figure this out is the April '97 FSM article on that kitbash which I’m following. So are you saying he’d crawl between the angled braces (floor to roof) on either side of the ‘gun base’ (which is raised up off the floor) on hands and knees? I simply don’t see how else but also wouldn’t have thought that was very “practical”?
If that’s the case all I can say is, ummm, wow.[:O]
It’s the only way to get to the driver’s controls. They were still in the standard position of the 251, no special hatches or access provided. The space is a bit roomier than you might think, but still a tight fit. The 251/22 was meant to provide mobility to the PaK 40 to eliminate the need for a towed prime mover and as a stop-gap tank destroyer/anti-tank platform. Creature comforts were definitely a secondary concern.
Thanks again for that information because in my ‘freelance’ version I was at first thinking that below the gun mount would be a tidy place for some ammo racks. I guess my driver would have been permanently assigned to his seat in that scenario, huh?[swg]
My ‘homebuilt’ 251/22 sure doesn’t have much room for internal ammo storage and I’ve seen reference to a ‘munitions carrier’ variant. Can someone supply a pic or link with focus on the internal layout?
I’m toying with the idea of the 251/22, a similar 251/Munitions carrier and a ‘253’ (I’ll also follow an old FSM conversion for that one) in a dio.
I really enjoyed the thread that’s on appx. page 6 of this forum about the various 251s that have been modeled or pics that were shared! It inspired me to break out some kits from my stash but since I have more time than money I’m doing ‘conversions’ with the old basic Tamiya offerings rather than buy the newer Dragon kits of each.
I realize that another 251 could carry ammo in it’s shipping crates but did the ‘munition carrier’ version have dedicated racks inside? I’d really appreciate any links/pics showing this since I haven’t seen the interior on any links yet and I’ve followed any that I’ve seen on this site in past posts?
Thanks again to all the knowledgable folks around here!
I’ve not been able to find any shots of the /22 interior showing ammo storage…there wouldn’t have been much space on the interior as that would’ve been needed for the crew, so probably just a crate or two as ready rounds is all that you’d find.
Well I found this one by following links on that ‘variant’ thread and it shows how the model version (which matches the FSM ‘conversion’ article) had some dedicated storage but it doesn’t amount to much.
Oh, and I agree about the irony of mounting the gun only to then cause a need for another vehicle to haul additional ammo. But I do see the advantage of not having to setup a traditional towed Pak40. All in all I guess they were quicker to deploy and engage in the mounted fashion.
I’m sure I could get away with another 251 just hauling crates of ammo but it seems there was a ‘dedicated’ munitions hauler variant and that makes me curious! There is reference of the 251/4 carrying 120 rounds of ammo with speculation that the seating was removed- but was that it? There’s a pic of a crewman passing a shell over the ‘side’ but no indication of the interior layout?
I believe the ammo was stored in the rear where the seats would have been. Also where the radio operator would have sat. If I remember correctly the radio operator seat was deleted in this variant. The picture above shows clearly there was storage at the radio operator seat.
But what about the 251/4 which was described as a ‘dedicated ammo carrier’? I read a reference to the bench seating being removed but am unable to find further info or any pics of the interior? I like the idea of making a lil dio with the 251/22, a muntions carrier and then an ‘observation’ (253) variant as if they might be on a ‘tank hunting patrol’ looking for opportunities![:D]
Thanks again for the sharing of knowledge and helpfulness of these boards!
I’m working on outfitting the interior and wonder what radio set would be appropriate for the Afrika Korps, early? I did some link following and there was some excellent info but I’m left confused. I have available the very simple ‘single set’ radio from Tamiya’s 250 or the ‘three component set’ from Dragon’s Marder II as reference.
AND,
Considering that I entered this project as a ‘hypothetical field modified/built’ 251/22, built prior to the official factory offerings (actually on a 'Hanomag 251/1) I was wondering about fabbing up an “ammo trailer” to be pulled behind it? I respect (and share) the zeal for prototype fidelity but also am enamored of the resourcefulness, ingenuity and accomplishments often born out by engineers in the field and am attacking this project along those lines- yet, wondering if there’s any concurrence on the feasability/probability of such an ammo trailer using the original Pak40 wheels for instance?
