I was just over on the International Movie Data Base (Imdb). Looking at SPR. When people started bringing up gaffes and bloopers in the film, I thought about the final battle scene in the movie. I think the german armour was a Tiger, some type of open topped SPG (Wespe ?) and a Jagdpanther ? The latter takes out the church belltower with Jackson and Parker in it. Now, the Jagdpanther is almost directly below them, and yet it manages to elevate its main armament so high that it can fire a round into a bell tower that has to be 50 or 60 feet high. Does this sound hokey to you ?
Haven’t seen the whole of SPR for a few years, but isn’t it the Wespe that takes out the bell tower?
Memory may well be failing me again.
That would be the only one out of the 3 with any chance of achieving that level of elevation with it’s main gun.
Just another example of the magic of Hollywood.
Karl
The Jagdpanther took the bell tower out, but I think it was further down the street since Parker(the sniper?) was picking off the germans around it. He was the one who noticed the JP aiming at them. Given the correct distance I think the JP could take out the bell tower, we just don’t really know how far away the JP was.
-Stephen[cwby]
I thought it was a Marder that took it out.
What should bug people even more is that normally these types of vehicles did not fight together. Despite urban legend and myth, German units were pretty cohesive throughout the war. Tiger tanks operated in independant heavy tank battalions for the most part with some exceptions in elite divisions at company strength. Marders, Jagdpanzers and Jagdpanthers operated in tank destroyer battalions and companies as part of a division, or sometimes independant as well…
As I recall, the Marder did seem to be elevating higher than I would have thought possible…
slightly off topic, but I NEVER understood the concept of the sniper in the bell tower. Im sure that most people would look to the highest point with the best available LOS for the sniper, would it be just putting yourself out in the open, instead of getting in a building with alot of windows?
Sure they would, but as a former shooter, if you command the high ground you command the field of battle. Doesn’t matter if it is a hill top, mountain, tree or tower. If gives you eyes that give you an advantage.You use that advantage as long as you can keep it. Like when a tank blows up the tower.
Don’t forget that the camera distorts in many cases the actual perspective of the situation. A good cameraman can pull a distant object in closer than it actually is. A tank round has to travel a certain distance before the round activates it explosive charge to prevent it from blowing up as it exits the muzzle.
An M203 40mm Grenade launcher round needed to spin 13 revolutions after exiting the muzzle if I remember correctly.
We used to train to climb buildings and water towers when I served on a tactical emergency action team, the AF equivalent of SWAT. The idea was to take out the enemy scout/spotters who fed info to the main force. Or you targeted the Officers and NCOs if the force was within range. In normal non combat operations, you were to remove the threat, whether it was a guy with a gun going berserk or holding a hostage.
Once on a call to respond to a hostage situation, a GI who found out his wife was being unfaithful, I set up using one of the Civil Engineering’s power line maintenance bucket trucks. Up in the basket I went. Fortunately the guy surrendered peacefully and without incident. Never had a shot, but it was fun playing with the bucket.
The Marder was destroyed by molotov cocktails,i’m pretty sure it was a closed top vehicle that did the bell tower
Well since my system also serves as the media server for our HTS here a couple of screenies of said action. Hope it helps
1-just after paratrooper runs out of 30cal and tank rolls in.
just as the sniper starts shoots. Good show of distance and angle
Have fun
Andrew
So then “What is it ?”
Looks like a SAV M/43, which is Swedish I believe, and based on the 38(t) chassis. The barrel in the movie looks longer than any picture I’ve been able to find (75mm??)
Any how, here is a picture or two:
http://data3.primeportal.net/artillery/tim_roberts/sav_m43_105mm/images/sav_m43_105mm_19_of_37.jpg
http://data3.primeportal.net/artillery/tim_roberts/sav_m43_105mm/images/sav_m43_105mm_10_of_37.jpg
Im glad the vehicle was the only thing buggin you guys cause GOSH…that DARN SNIPER RIFLE Jackson uses through the whole movie sure BUGS THE HECK OUTTA ME!! [:P]
Ethan
and why?
gary
The vehicle it’s supposed to represent is a Marder III H…and the elevation angle required to hit the bell tower isn’t out of the realm of possibility for it. The gun could elevate to a maximum of +10 degrees so the distance and relative angle to the target would have to be known to be sure on whether the actual shot was within the capability or “Hollywood-ized”. [;)]
What about his Springfield '03 bugs you?
All in all a very watchable historical fiction war movie, although with many technical goofs. But better than most out there.
The rifle used is a 1903A4…a Designated Sniper rifle based off the 1903A3… In the Movie…well in the beginning jackson uses the shorter scope (M81) Correst scope for the rifle…during the “Sniper on Sniper” scene…Jackson changes his scope to the longer…older “Unertl” scope…
Two things wrong here…
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You cant just go swapping scopes like that…Windage…elevation…all needs zeroed AGAIN once you remount a scope…Ths is impossible…especially since the rear base on these rifles adjusted windage…so a one shot kill is totally bogus…
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the second longer scope (Unertl) was never used on the 1903A4…Nor was there any way he could mount this scope (Legitamently) on the 1903A4 platform…
BUT…the Unertl was used on 1903’s…USMC Rifle teams used this scope. I believe it did see some combat roles in WWII (im not too well read up on this particular setup) and saw service in Vietnam on the M70 platform.
Sorry I know its a movie and its good but i just had to bring it up haha…I guess it doesnt bug me that much
ALSO…Springfield only manufactured 1903’s…not 1903a3’s…Only Remington and Smith corona… haha sorry sorry.
Ethan
Like most movies about any war I think a guy should watch it for the entertainment value not for the history. SPR is a great movie but very bad history on many levels.
I agree its got entertainment value, but where it shines is the practice that hanks/spielberg took and learned from to make BoB, thats where it shines IMHO
Andrew
I think this is where Hanks was introduced to the WW2 bug. But Speilberg ahd it way before. Empire of the Sun (one of my personal favorite movies) and Schindlers List are two shining examples. And of course having the homage to Saturday Matinee serials with Nazi Bad Guys in two of his Indiana Jones movies. And even 1941 is another one where the WWII atmosphere was done pretty well. Yes they all have technical flaws, but he really went out of his way to bring back that era.
Hey Ethan
Did you happen to catch the ‘rivet counter’ thread in one of the other forums… [:P][whstl]
Nah, I’m just bustin’ on ya’… but I don’t think most people would know, and to be honest, even if I did know, I probably wouldn’t care. It is just the nature of the beast - you have to suspend a certain amount of disbelief anytime Hollywood is involved.
Now that we’re on the topic of SPR inaccuracies… Did anyone else notice something odd about the Tiger 1? Its on a T-34 chassis… Which makes sense, because working Tiger I’s aren’t exactly the easiest thing to get one’s hands on.