Or is it,
“Do a Barrel-roll”? Either way, I’m off on the Accurate Minatures 1/48th Grumman F3F-1 “Flying Barrel”… Never built this kit before, but I got it for a song (11.00 and free shipping from Ebay) and it’s pretty nice inside the box, with a great decal sheet and some photo-etched parts and flying wires as well… This has started me on a Grumman Family Portrait idea for an airshow diorama featuring the propped-Grumman fighters, and herein lies a small problem… I haven’t been able to locate any restored F3Fs in flying condition and wondered if anyone knows first-hand of such an animal… I know that the Aussies and Kiwis have a history of finding these kind of aircraft and getting them airworthy (Like the I-16 Rata flights)… Anyone ever seen a Flying Barrel flying, and if so, do you recall the markings?
Hi, Hammer, the only in-flight shots I’ve ever seen were from a movie, maybe “Dive Bomber”, with all of the yellow-wings shots that they did. But I did a quick Google search on “grumman f3f airworthy”, that returned this page, from the 2008 Chino Air Show:
http://aafo.com/airshows/2008/chino/
I don’t think our cousins down under might find any, because I’m not sure that any F3Fs were deployed there, if I’m not mistaken, they were all either shipboard on the carriers, or based in US territory, until they were withdrawn from frontline service. I may be wrong about that, though.
The only other possibility I thought of was whether Gulf Oil’s F3F Gulfhawk might have been preserved anywhere, in flying condition.
That is a great kit, I think I have a half-dozen AM F3Fs in the stash, awaiting glue. I want to build a couple examples from the same squadron and put them on a carrier deck.
Regards,
Brad
I’ve got the same kit and have not built it either. It looks awesome, and the decal sheet is probably the best part. I think it allows you to build virtually any carrier-borne F3F-1 that existed. I’m looking forwad to seeing this one, are you going to post a WIP thread?
Thanks, Herr Baron… I was curious as to whether or not they went Down Under since it seems that there were some other off-the-wall types that found their way down there or were in-place at the outbreak of the Pacific war, and speculated that a Barrel or three might have made it’s way there via the Philipines…
Pretty likely… I’ve already de-bagged and started planning…[:D] The pic that I found in the link provided by the Baron shows a -2 from Fighting 6, which I think is from Yorktown (CV-5)… Can’t tell if it’s painted silver or light grey though…
I think I can modify the cowl to represent a -2 as well…
Here you go, Hans. This goes back to Dec.
/forums/1052046/ShowPost.aspx
And one in a museum.
Gulfhawk II is on display at the NASM Udvar-Hazy Center
Off and running… Cockpit and engine are done and installed.
If you recall that TBD pic I posted a few weeks back, there are some other ones in that series showing other aircraft of the era. All appear to have Aluminum paint/dope along with the yellow wings.
Ya, I knew about the aluminum dope… I’ve seen the light grey finish as well, and that’s what I’m not sure about… If the -1s were finished in grey or silver… I’m probably going with the silver dope if I can get away with it… I want to try this silver Rub & Buff stuff I got for more than drybrushing and small areas… I did the silver areas of the cockpit with it, as well as drybrushing the engine’s jugs… I like the way it looks so far…
Here is a shot from the Navy archives- you make the call partner [swg]
LOL… Ok…
After much searching through my books, I finally found a reference to the F3F’s overall color and it turns out I can do both grey and silver… The fuselages were painted a gloss light grey, while the lower wings and the underside of the top wing painted with the silver dope… Now to find the right shade of grey…
Note to y’all that have this kit waiting for glue… I ran into a couple of issues with the landing gear doors and the fuselage part that covers the guns… The gear doors are tricky to insert, make sure that the glue’s really SET before you try to install them. The A-frames have to be spread to insert the doors and the stress is pretty high on those. Also, there’s a definate fit-issue with the top of the fuselage. Be ready to putty. It’s a SMALL area, right at the edge of the windscreen frame, but if you’re gonna paint it silver, it’ll scream out at ya if ya don’t… Here’s a look:
Same with the underside part that has the exhaust and carb intake. A skoshi-bit is needed there as well. Also, I recommend drilling out the blast tube for the .50 cal before you install it. The .30 cal blast tube gets cut off at the muzzle, according to the instructions, but I’m not too sure about that. Seems to make more sense if it’s cut to extend past the opening a bit, but I don’t have a reference that shows it yet… I cut it, but it’ll be a simple enough matter to add a blast tube later if need be… If you have one laying around, the applicator tube from the Model Master Liquid Cement is perfect for the blast tubes…
Also take note that the .50 cal can be seen in the cockpit. It’s unpainted in the above photo, but I’ve since taken care of that. If I had it to do over, I’d rob the Monogram B-17 of one of it’s 50s and cast a copy, make charging handles, and insert the reciever into that spot, and likewise with the .30 cal on the left, coming from the Monogram B-25J…
Hans,
The gray should be very close to gull gray, FS 16440. In that period paints were typically a very high gloss, either because it was painted on as a gloss laquer or polished afterwards by the ground crew.
Tim
THAT’S the one I’m looking for… For the life of me I couldn’t pull that color to front of the line… Thanks Greenshirt!
This’s a bit of a departure for me since there won’t be a lot of weathering on an airshow bird… A skoshi-bit of seepage from the gear perhaps and a little post-flight exhaust staining will do… Gives me a reason to use the pilot figure I got that’s wearing an HGU-33 flight helmet… For the life of me, I don’t know how that guy got m’ figures box… Ain’t built a jet since 1988…
Great start, Hammer, and I think it will inspire everyone who has this kit in the stash to get it out and start.
One little note from the earlier post:
Fighting 6 was the Enterprise’s fighter squadron, if I’m not mistaken; the Iron Lady’s was Fighting Five (till early '42, and she took on Air Group 3 from the Saratoga). I think AM includes the markings for both, as well as for Fighting 7, because I think there’s a black-tailed bird in there somewhere.
As to aluminum lacquer vs light gray, does the F3F span the time for both? If I remember, the F4B-4s and F11C’s had the gray paint (on the metal fuselage surfaces), but the later F3F’s had the aluminum lacquer. I have the Squadron “Grumman F3F” volume at home, I’ll check it tonight and review the pics.
Regards,
Brad
I didn’t pay attention to the tail color which I thought (assumed) was red. Of course, I’m wrong because I can see it’s blue or black, making it either Enterprise or Wasp… But since you know that Fighting 6 was on the Big E, I’ll say it’s blue… The section number’s wrong though… It has the Red Section leader’s full red cowl and chevron, so it should be coded 6-F-1 if I got my refs right… Numbers 2 and 3 would have only half the cowl painted ( upper on #2, or lower on #3) and no chevron.
Anyway, I’m gonna scrap the airshow idea and go with an operational Marine unit now, circa 1936, methinks…
Methings Baron may be right. According to “Navy Air Colors, Vol 1, 1911-1945” by Doll, Jackson & Riley, USN aircraft were painted “aluminum enamel” over fabric and metal until 1930 or 1931. This “aluminum enamel on fabric surfaces gave an appearance of Silver and of Light Gray when applied to metal parts.” My opinion, but it appears the British FAA did the same and the gray is usually referred to a “cerrux grey” because the manufacturer was “cerrux”. Humbrol has that color in it’s line and it’s very cloe to gull gray, FS 16440.
Navy Air Colors goes on to say, “As smooth-skin, semi-monocoque aircraft entered service in the early thirtys, a much lighter shade of Gray was specified. A Silver finish was introduced in the mid-30’s and retained until replaced by the overall Light Gray adopted as camouflage in early 1941.”
“Grumman Biplane Fighters in action” shows photos of FF-1 and F2Fs with a gray fuselage; whereas the F3F series all appear with shiny silver fuselages. Some later photos of the F2Fs are with silver fuselages so I must presume the F2F spanned the change in paint scheme whereas the F3F only served during the period where the overall paint was silver. Regardless, I’m sure there is a HUGE variation.
When I paint my USN “yellow wings” I usually use Tamiya XF-16 as the “silver” for the entire model, then overspray the metal areas with FS16440 gull gray if there is a definite color variation in my reference photo. In 72nd they look “right” when I do that. I may try one with a bit more variation, e.g. a lighter gray than FS16440, humbrol’s cerrux grey, or a more polished metalizer on metal areas for later types. Either way, I firmly believe there should be a variation (even if slight) between the fabric and metal surfaces when historically painted the same color.
Tim
Here is a little insparation for you Hans. This baby is obviously no static display as you can see. I do’nt remember where I found this pic but it was such a nice photo i saved it. Hope you like it.
Soulcrusher[oX)]
The instructions call out two different “aluminum” colors for the F3F’s fabric vs metal, FWIW… But I’m going with the Gloss Light Gull Grey for the fuselage, Testor’s Aluminum Plate buffing metalizer for the ailerons, and Wal-Mart Aluminum for the wing fabric… I did a test-shot on a P-38 hulk of the three silvers I have (Wal-Mart Aluminum, Testor’s Aluminum Plate, and Krylon Sterling Silver) and those two provided the best contrast, with the Testor’s drying nice & flat, like the dull side of aluminum foil and the Wally-World paint nice & shiny with a slight texture…
Here’s the P-38 wing. The center area is the Testor’s, the outside panel, flap, and aileron are Wal-Mart, no clear coat on either.
You should like this one of the same bird then…[:D]
Wish I could see clearly if the tail color is black or blue (Damn squids’re always up-sun)… My color vision isn’t what it used to be… (I’m color blind, “Red-Green color discrimination”, according to my PIP tests) And it never was…
While I’m at it, the following is what info I got on F3F-series Carrier/Squadron/Section markings, 1936-40…
Tail Colors:
Lexington (CV-2)- Yellow
Saratoga (CV-3)- White
Ranger (CV-4)- Green
Yorktown (CV-5)-Red
Enterprise (CV-6)-Blue
Wasp (CV-7)-Black
Aircraft Section Colors and Numbers:
Section Aircraft Numbers Section Color
1 1-3 Red
2 4-6 White
3 7-9 Blue
4 10-12 Black
5 13-15 Green
6 16-18 Yellow
Section Leaders displayed a fuselage band, full cowl ring, and chevron on top wing in section colors. Section Leaders A/C numbers were 1,4,7,10,13, and 16. The second aircraft in the section had only the top half of the cowl painted in section color, no chevron, and the third aircraft had only the bottom half of the cowl ring painted.
So, in this photo, the aircraft’s number is wrong for the cowl & chevron markings. It should be 6-F-1 for, Fighting 6, Red Leader, USS Enterprise, if everything’s to be believed…
A lesson in using restored aircraft as refs for Operational Aircraft, boys & girls… “Even a 1/1 scale owner can get it wrong”, lol…
Wow… This’s an exciting build, just from all the research going into it… I’m likin’ this Navy Stuff!
(Sorry Dad, lost m’ head a sec… I’m back now…)
I feel your pain there Hans. I too am red green brown color blind. Over the years I have managed to compensate mainly by asking people who are not color blind what the colors actually are. Then I commit these altered colors to my memory and try to remember when I see them agian. The funny thing is I am pretty good at matching colors by sight. I can look at a color on a sheet and find a match in my huge paint supply or mix it to match even though I am not seeing it as everyone else.Sometimes I do have to ask for a consult from a freind who is not color blind to verify that I am actually interpreting the color I see corectly but I have managed not to screw anything up to bad so far. I have learned the same about these restored aircraft too. It really drives me crazy to see people restore these old birds so beautifuly and then paint them so inaccurately. I always thing to myself just find a model builder and let them tell you how to paint the bloody thing!
Soulcrusher[oX)]