Hi everyone , I was hoping someone may be able to assist me in finding a good reference pic of a U.S.Navy A-4C Skyhawk , wearing an alternative green/olive camo scheme . I have three Hasegawa 1/72 scale A-4E/F kits in my stash and I was thinking of building one without the avionics hump fitted .
The only pic I had in my reference books and magazines was this one . I also had a bit of a search around google and yahoo images but didn’t see any other similar pic’s so far . I did see a reference to a Osprey publication on the U.S.Navy/Marine Corps A-4 Skyhawk in Vietnam ; It’s priced around $35 here in Sydney , I just thought before I spend any money , someone might know of some images or at least a camouflage patten drawing I could use .
The caption next to the pic say’s “Displaying the experimental camouflage are two A-4C’s from VA-113 aboard the USS Kitty Hawk” .
I greatly appreciate any assistance anyone can give me regarding my inquiry .
The Navy did that same camo on the Phantom during that time… It was just a two-tone camo of olive over grey… The Navy canned it because it didn’t really help, and made the planes hard to see on the deck during night flight ops…
every skyhawk I ever saw in Chu Lai (that’s where most all the arrier based planes rearmed and refueled that bombed the north) was painted the light grey color. I don’t remember ever getting an airstrike from an A4 in country, and really don’t remember ever seeing one take off that didn’t head due north and out to sea. Airforce planes often wore a camo paint job, but as I said I never saw any Marine or Navy planes in anything but the light grey color. Maybe out of Dong Ha or Phu Bai?
Some A-6s and F-4s also sported variations of that scheme during the 1966 time period. As Hans said above, its’ use was discontinued for the reasons listed.
You may try wings pallette website to see if there are any profiles in this scheme.
I built an A-6 and a F-4G with the alternative camo scheme . So I was thinking of adding a A-4 and RA-5C to the display cabinet as well .
I also found these two pic’s in my reference books . Interestingly the caption for the first RA-5C pic say’s "The RVAH-11 wearing an experimental scheme also on the USS Kitty Hawk . I’m now wondering if the other aircraft were on the same Aircraft Carrier ???
I checked out wings pallete site but unfortunatly my computer screen always freeze’s up when I access their site .
I greatly appreciate the help so far . Thanks everyone . John
I have the book Vietnam Air War Debrief at home. A very thorough year by year examination of that subject, I will check it in the morning and get back to you about what it has to say. Now that you mention it, I dont offhand recall any other carriers having that camo scheme on their birds. I just do know that it was in '66 when it was used.
BTW, that Intruder and Phantom look great! I love ones that are out of the mainstream.
Chu Lai was a big airbase that was used extensively for the bombing of North Vietnam till LBJ called a halt to it. Some of the planes there were showing a lot of age, and there was a storage area for shot up carrier based planes. It was a very busy place on a 24/7 basis with a plane almost constantly being in the arming pit getting ready for take off. All were grey except for some C123’s and choppers. I still remember when the first wing of A6’s showed up, and all the people checking them out (talking about how ugly they were). These were also painted that light grey color. But Airforce planes came in all sorts of colors (bare metal too). Yet the Airforce never used A4’s in RVN
My ref (Wings of Fame, Vol.1 ) lists the air wings of the Kittyhawk, Enterprise, and Constellation as having flown the green camo starting in late '65…
Gary this was an experimental scheme used by the Navy to try and cut down on the air to air loss rates. At that point the MiG threat was becoming quite pronounced and loss rates to MiGs were begining to rise.
EDIT- Per Vietnam Air War Debrief, the prime carrier in the experiment was USS Kitty Hawk. Half of Air Wing 11’s aircraft were painted in the dark green uppers camo scheme during her 12/65 to 5/66 Tonkin Gulf deployment. Other carriers also participated.
Osprey’s US Navy and Marine A-4 Skyhawk Units if the Vietnam War has one side color profile of a VA-155 A-4E off USS Constellation in 1966(May-Dec cruise), with buddy tanker stores in a three tone upper scheme(olive, dark green, blue green). It also has one color photo of an A-4C from VA-113, USS Kitty Hawk, April 1966, single upper color green landing aboard the carrier after a strike.
well 1965 was still kinda early, and things really started to ramp up in late 65 and 66. There were several older planes in the bone yard from the Kittyhawk that had big holes in them, and as I said were grey. The others (aircraft carriers) must have left long before I showed up. Most planes were from the B. Richard, Oriskany, Kittyhawk, and a fourth one (Forrestal?) that escapes me. Virtually everything we saw out of Thailand was camoed in a couple different patterns. But, (now this is interesting) the OV1’s were painted a very dark green or maybe even black. F100’s seem to come in “the flavor of the day.” F4’s were normally camoed unless they were Marines. Maybe saw six or eight strikes involving A6’s. And we’ve all seen camoed Skyraiders as well as grey ones. After LBJ cancelled the bombing of the north we saw very few A4’s in Chu Lai, but the A6’s stayed around. This is why I find it interesting that the Navy used some camoed planes.
Lastly, I maybe wrong but as I recall ten, eleven, and thirteen were stationed in Chu Lai when I was down on Gator. We used to use their PX’s all the time.
After some more searching on the net , I came across this pic on www.airliners.net . It shows the left side of the A-4 Skyhawk fuselage . I also spent quite a while looking at the skyhawk.org site ; It was very informative , there’s hundreds of images of the A-4 but as yet I haven’t a seen any with the camouflage scheme . I’ll be going into the city [Sydney] on saturday morning , there is a Military Bookstore just across the street from the Hobby store , so I’ll be checking out the Osprey and Squadron/Signal publications on the A-4 Skyhawk and I’ll see which or both or other publications will suit my research on the camouflage scheme . I will also browse for some RA-5 Vigilante books . I greatly appreciate everyone’s help with my inquiry , it sure would be really cool if I could post a couple of pic’s of a camouflaged U.S.Navy Skyhawk and Vigilante in the not too distant future .
I have been searching for a picture of RA-5C 150830 from RVAH-6 on the Constellation. It was lost 10/23/66 with LCdr. Thomas Kolstad and Lt(jg) William Klenert both being KIA. Kolstad was from Minnesota, and I prefer to build models with some home state connection, so that is why I am interested. Another picture in this post shows 149313 from RVAH-6 in a two tone camo, and I was wondering if anyone knows if 150830 was also in camo or was only one aircraft painted in camo.
Some good information is available in USN Aircraft Carrier Air Units Volume 3, 1964-73 by Duane Kasulka. There are B&W pictures of a VA-65 KA-6D Intruder and VA-52 A-1H, and a color picture on the back cover of a VA-36 A-4C. The text states that the Kitty Hawk had half of its aircraft painted in camo. RVAH-13 (RA-5C) and VA-115 (A-1H) had medium green, tan, and olive drab. VA-85 (A-6A), VF-213 (F-4B/G), VAH-4 (KA-3B) had just medium green. The Enterprise had VA-36 paint their A-4s in medium green and olive drab. The Constellation had VA-65 (A-6A), VA-155 (A-4E), and RVAH-6 (RA-5C) also in the medium green and olive drab.
Anyways, if anyone knows of any pictures with 150830 in the background during that cruise, let me know if it was in camo or the regular paint please!
BTW Helo, this is a great thread… I have two A-4Cs in the stash… one is gonna be the only Mig Killing A-4C, but I did not yet have a scheme for the 2nd one… I may just have to do one of those camo’d ones.
If you’re planning on backdating the Hasegawa A-4E/F to an A-4C, there’s a couple of considerations regarding accuracy. First of all, the A-4E fuselage was longer than the A-4C, apparently due to the larger engine. In addition, the E carried splitter plates on the intakes; these were not on the C or earlier models. More critical, the early Hasegawa 1/72 A-4E kit was way out of shape in the fuselage. They really botched the length, made it roughly the same as their TA-4F/J. Hasegawa apparently used the length with refueling probe for the bare fuselage length, and I don’t know whether this was ever corrected in later releases. It might be a good idea to scale it out just to be sure.
On the other hand, the completed kit could not be mistaken for anything but a Skyhawk, regardless of whether you do surgery on it. Besides, the dark camo would hide a lot of sins and few would notice. As always, build to please yourself, and have fun.
Thank’s for the direct link stickpusher . Of interest is the position of the “Stars and Bars” on the A-4 ; Some pic’s have them under the cockpit and others are over the speed brake . Does this have any significance ; ie C model to E model ??? Just curious . John
BTW , Here’s a web site with some pic’s of the RA-5 Vigilante . The text is not in english but there are some good images …www.airwar.ru/enc/spy/ra5.html
Hi Dick , thank’s for info on the C and E models . actually I was thinking of using the Fujimi 1/72 scale kit . It has seperate slats and flaps and the canopy can be posed open . Overall a much nicer kit . I know Fujimi have issued a A-4C Skyhawk but there doesn’t appear to be one available at the moment . Perhaps some more research may lead me in finding some pic’s of a A-4E camouflage aircraft . I’m looking forward to my visit to the Military Bookstore [:)] on saturday .
Thanks for the link to the Russian RA-5 site. I think that is 150830 in the camo paint since the loss report indicates that the nose number was 705.
In “Vietnam Air Warfare” by Dorr and Bishop, there is a color picture of A-6 149848 from VA-85 that has a sky blue type undersurface and medium green upper surfaces. Interesting combination that may have been applied to A-4s as well.
