Regarding T2 tankers

Modeling Subjects Ships
1

My March project is to build the Revell classic T2 tanker model. I plan to build the Mission Carmel, for personal reasons, plus she was launched at Marinship along with many sisters, which I can see from the window where I’m sitting now during the day.

I don’t have any other resources except for the www, which has been pretty good so far, and therefore would like a little help for you all.

From what I see, the tanker fleet in this class was built under commissions from the Maritime Commission, a Federal Agency. But here I immediately lose the thread. These ships were initially leased to private carriers, such as Pacific Tankers Inc. in the case of the SS Carmel. They then joined the Reserve Fleet after the War, and were assigned to the Navy only in 1947, in this case. She only then became the USNS Mission Carmel T-AO-113, correct?

My immediate interest then is: how to paint her. Is she a USN ship? no. Is she painted like a USN ship? I would assume so. In that case is it Measure 23 in June 1944? All the pictures I can find are of course b/w, there looks to be light grey vertical surfaces. Would her stack be the flag of the operator?

Any help would be great. I have and am trying to learn more and will trade research time for help. A possibility is haze gray/ deck gray.

The one modification, actually two, are as follows. I’m cutting down the hull to be a waterline model while fully laden. I like that look. And second, I’m going to make a new front for the superstructure that has the correct camber to the bridge decks and the correct ports. I’ll have a CAD and pdf file of that for anyone who would like it. It’s a trace from the drawings I bought, thanks for the tip Fred (onyxman), from the nara. It’s a photo etched piece of brass. The structure behind will be the Revell wedding cake with flat decks, but will look fine from either side.

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I’m looking forward to this Bondo.

I can’t help you on the colors. I know in more recent times MSC ships which were run by private companies were painted grey with only a couple of stripes on the stack (yellow and blue?) but still had printed over their name “US Naval Ship”. Whether any of this applies to your timeframe, I don’t know.

By the way, it looks to me like all the railings are only two bar. Is that right?

Fred

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http://www.t2tanker.org/

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I wasn’t clear on what time frame you will be doing. 1944? Just speculating here, but I would think the painting of T-2s that were operated by private companies during wartime would be similar to the way they handled Liberty ships, for example.

The Liberty ships were operated by various companies, ie Grace Line etc. Mostly they were just all painted gray, no stack decoration and during convoys had their names painted out too.

Have you seen this picture?

http://www.usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=A1815a

This German site is a goldmine for old ship pictures.

edited link 4-21-09

Fred

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All I can say is that last night when I was on patrol I sank a T-2 and a T-3 tanker in a small convoy…did the T-2 in with my deck gun…she burned like a Roman Candle…

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Just wait until '44. There will be no more fun with your deck gun.

[;)]

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They are only 2 bar. I’ve got a fair amount of that stuff, hopefully enough! The entire bulwark, plus the center catwalks, the bridge and stern structures! One clunky looking deal is the engineroom skylight- I’ll try to make a thinner one out of PE scrap.

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That is a real beauty! I live along the shore in those hills in the background. It’s interesting because she’s sailing west up the bay rather than out to sea. I suppose she was moving to a fitting dock or something. Thank you Fred.

Surface Line sent me the kit instructions, which have a great painting of the ship in a multi colored deception pattern. I like it and will try to see if it’s accurate and what the measure is. Any help appreciated.

Bill

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I sank two T-2’s last night—AND a T-3 !!!

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“It’s interesting because she’s sailing west up the bay…”

Judging by the propeller wash I think she’s going astern, probably just turning around.

I have one more T-2 to do. I think I’ll do it as this one:

http://www.usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=A0326a

or maybe this:

http://www.usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=A2720b

Here’s a real nice color shot of one deep loaded and underway. I think that exaggerated wave pattern is because the water is shallow:

http://www.usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=A1744b

I’m really interested to see how your cambered front comes out.

edited links 4-21-09

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I really like the SS. Lompoc there. Thats the Richmond/ Port Costa area behind, she’s moored in the channel that leads eventually to Stockton and Sacramento.

You’re right about the Carmel, it looks like she’s being turned around. That is a great shot. I’m going to contact the photographer and see if I can get a print.

I dipped into a couple of sites showing ship camouflage, but I don’t know where to even start. So my plan is to do a gray paint scheme like the picture.

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The name of the Lompoc is vaguely familiar to me. It was probably still running into the '70s.

re the pic of the Carmel. Since you are doing a loaded waterline it doesn’t matter to you, but I wonder what’s the deal with that funny darker patch around the rudder and propeller area? I notice the same thing on some of the other pictures of the same series. I can’t think why they would put antifouling only on that part of the hull.

One of those mysteries lost in time I guess.

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The camouflage you are referring to is from the old John Steel box art. I will try to send you a bigger print.

I will also look around for the reference; might have it in my files.

Rick

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Look at Navsource page for USS Cimarron AO22

There is a better camouflage drawing than any that I have in my files, an a photo of Cimarron wearing that pattern - Ms 32/13T.

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Here’s a site I just found that has a fair amount of local history.

http://www.sausalitohistoricalsociety.org/marinship/default.htm

Thanks for the camouflage tip. It’s led to all kinds of info, I’ve expanded my knowledge to a couple of websites beyond steelnavy, which is great, and lots of new stuff. It looks like Measure 32 is the color scheme for the Fleet Oilers, and the patterns so far include 4AO, 5AO, 7AO, 10AD and 13T. Very interesting stuff.

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I’m sorry, humor me but I’m like a kid who found the candy shop door unlocked! You know they say the converts are the dangerous ones!

New info is always good info. It seems to me that the fleet oilers are based mostly on T3’s. And the photos I found, plus the painting in the instructions, tend more towards the Korean conflict/ early 60"s. And the few photos I can find of Mission Carmel seem to be a simple Light Grey scheme, like Measure 23.

A fleet oiler would be a good project for another day, the additional booms don’t look too complicated, hoses etc. I have no idea what a T3 is as opposed to a T2 but that’s another project.

So I’m getting started this weekend, first thing is to cut down the hull and remove several thousand feet of cast railings. I glued the deck to the hull about a year ago, so it should be ready for some serious razor saw work.

Thanks again everyone for your info. In my searches I found many interesting things T2’s became; container ships, test range radar ships, and a small aircraft carrier!

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Another interesting subject would be a T-2 with a deck built over the piping, they were called Meccano Decks. It could be filled with planes or landing craft. Anything big but not too heavy was carried on T-2s that way.

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Anchors hoisted and lashed, sir! Telegraph the engine room for Slow Ahead.

Based on the drawings I got from the National Archives- thanks Fred for the link- I worked out the freeboard. The difference between the draft and the depth is about 10 feet, but I would assume that you add the depth of the keelson to that, so I decided on a freeboard of about 12 feet. That seems to look “right” in photos of laden T2s. And certainly is less than the 20 feet or so Revell gave us. So it seemed a safe call. The black is a primer I sprayed after I taped off the waterline from below. Thats a trick on cut-down projects- mask the discard area, paint the keeper side, pull the tape, saw a 1/16" or so below the paint and sand until the unpainted plastic goes away. She already looks better! Isn’t the hull lower piece a pretty shape???

Next step is to carve off the rails and the curved fillets fore and aft of the bridge structure are way too vertical- much more curved and graceful on the actual ship, so thats an easy sheet styrene project. I’ll take the plans, which are 1/192 scale, in to the office on Monday and make reductions for patterns.

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Looking good! You are right about those ‘fillets’ being too pronounced.

Fred

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Here is an oddball mystery:

http://www.usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=A0306b

In that second picture of the USS Schuylkill, the stack is moved to just behind the midship superstructure. What is going on there? Surely the engines stayed aft. Is it just a dummy funnel to make identification difficult?

Note the P-47s on deck in the last pic.

???

edited link 4-21-09