RAF B-17 research help needed

Hey everybody, I’m in need of some help researching for an up coming B-17 group build on the ARC forums. I plan to build a B-17D with help from the koster conversion kit, and an RAF fortress III of either 214sq or 223sq form No 100 group. I’ve been having a difficult time trying to find pics of these forts, even on the web, google has brought me next to nothing.

These forts were the radar/radio countermeasures forts, apinted in night camo similar to the lancaster. If anybody has pics, may you please share them?

Thanks in advance

Ah, hell… Though you wanted help finding something hard… [t$t]

No pics as such, but here are Liberators for the same squadrons which would be in the same scheme & a couple of Forts;

214 http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark214-216.htm & http://www.214squadron.org.uk/Aircraft_Flying_Fortress.htm

223 http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark223-225.htm

Wings Palette also has a couple of side views here;

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/439/9

According to their website, 214 Squadron didn’t fly D models, only Fortress Mks II and III.

223 Squadron didn’t get Forts until April of '45.

That said, Here’s the 214 Sqn Fortress Mk III (B-17G) Camo:

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Aircraft Profiles/214SqnFortress_MK3.jpg?t=1289852942)

ANd Fortress Mk II (B-17F):

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Aircraft Profiles/214SqnFortress_MK2.jpg?t=1289853028)

EDIT… Misread your post, Guy… You’re wanting the Mark II and II camouflage right?

The above profiles are from 214 Squadron/100 Group… So are you wanting RAF Fortress Mk I camouflage too?

this has been a tough one to research for me as well, Im doing the fortress III for the GB.

I dont know if the ‘D’s’ were used for this, the F and G were for sure.

you’ll need:

exhaust flame dampers

flare chute ports

antennae

etc

Best drawings I could find of the RAF Fort camo:

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Aircraft Profiles/RAF_Fortress_Camo_1.jpg?t=1289854147)

!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Aircraft Profiles/RAF_Fortress_Camo_2.jpg?t=1289854181)

The only references to any “Shark-Fin” Forts I could find in RAF service was for 20 C-models (Mk Is) used early on, and no D-models

Thanks everyone,

Hans, good stuff there, thanks buddy. The fortress III/B-17G is what I’m looking to build, so the first color profile you posted is pretty much what I’m looking to do, just cant seem to find any pics with out having to buy a bunch of books that I dont really want.

I’m a keep digging. May have come across something good.

If you PROMISE (and also swear to Great Fortress your eyes will fall out if you fail to do so) to mail it back to me when you’re done, I have an issue of “Wings of Fame” that has a few more color drawings, including top views, of the No. 214 Squadron Mk IIIs (along with gobs of USAAF, USN, even CIA B-17 pics)… They show all the antennas to a fair degree as well…

OR… I guess I could pop across the street to Copyworks a scan the pics… Then you can keep 'em…

A any rate, that issue contains No. 214 Sqn Fortress Mk III and Mk II pics I’ve never seen anywhere else, as well as many other B-17 pics that’re fairly rare… Including some interesting nose armament arrangements on F models… Remember the F that had a canvas boot panel for twin flex-mount .50s, above the flat bombsight panel and the blister on top of the fuselage for the bombardier’s head to poke up into?

if by chance you scan them, may I have a set as well?

Hans my good friend, I would absolutely appreciate scanning them, not saying I would’nt send this magazine back to you, just saying there are too many variables in the mail process to chance losing that info. And I’ve gotta see these pics, I cant remember the F model your talking about, I’ve seen some with twins in the nose but dont recall a blister for the bombardiers head! Cant wait to see the pics. Thanks again Hans.

You need to get ahold of the book “A Thousand Shall Fall” by Murray Penden, I used it to build a 214 squ. fort an apart from a fair number of decent pictures I used the descriptions of what was done to the planes to guess a bit, things like it mentions that they painted lower parts of some windows black and such. I thought an interesting mod was the waist guns, they put on brackets so you couldn’t shoot your own wings and tail. What ever they had in the nose behind the glass was tough to figure, I had to make a best guess.

Ok, I’ll have Copyworks scan 'em… Might take a couple days before I get it done, since I gotta go to the VA tomorrow and THAT’S an all-day deal…

Yeah, noticed that in the three-view drawings too…

Hans, whenever you get a chance, no big hurry. Yeah, I hear ya about the VA, hell of a alot of hurry up and wait.

Toomanyslurpees…More pictures please, they would for good refference material. I’d appreciate as much info on your build as possible, where did you get those decals or did you paint them on? Do you have WIP pics?

I second what B17 Guy said, looks like you used the paragon kit or did a bang up job scratch building!

Im a bit confused when it comes to the wait gunners. Some pics I see have no 50’s and others do have them?

I’d assume these birds were armed (minus nose and ball turret stations) but what about the radio/radar compartment?

the brackets for the waist guns are included in the paragon kit, indicated to go on later staggered waist gun/plexi window’d models.

Nope, according to my refs… Just tail, waist, and the top turret…

Add ball turret to that list hans, at least on some of them.

I’d be interested in seeing that Paragon kit, thought about getting myself. If’n it ain’t much trouble, I’d like a copy of them scans. IIRC the -Ds where used in the begining of the war, found out they weren’t combat ready and then assigned to coastal watch

I have a book at home that I think has some photos of Brit ECM Forts … I will look tonight.